JeffGordon 0 #1 March 28, 2003 From FOXNews Quote MONTPELIER, Vt. — A group of Vermont teen-agers threw rocks at a uniformed female Vermont National Guard sergeant last week, in the latest example of a service member facing hostility in the United States. National Guard spokesman Capt. Jeff Roosevelt said the woman was not injured in Friday's incident, which took place in Plainfield, but said the woman had decided she would no longer wear her uniform outside of work. "We are a very tolerant state and people in the military also expect to be treated with the same courtesy and respect that we show to others," Lt. Col. Scott Stirewalt, director of security at the Vermont National Guard, told WCAX news. The teens blocked the sergeant as she went into a store and again on the way out, yelling obscenities at her along the way, Roosevelt said. The group also threw small stones at her car as she drove away, he added. The sergeant said she believed the protesters had taken part in an anti-war demonstration in Montpelier that day. National Guard troops are often deployed to such events to help keep the peace. "There were various profanities directed in her direction, along the line of '[expletive] murderer, [expletive] baby killer,'" Stirewalt said. "It culminated with some of the individuals throwing rocks at her, and as testament to her disciplined professionalism, she got in her car and left the area." This shit makes me FURIOUS. I'm all for free speech, Protest the war if you want, lie down in the street and block traffic, hell burn the fucking flag but this shit is ASSAULT. I applaud this young lady's reaction, but if I had been there somebody would have gotten hurt! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #2 March 28, 2003 I am with you on this! I bet they wont get shit for it either! they deserve the full swing of the hammer!My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cgross 1 #3 March 28, 2003 That is why i am not in the military... I would have pulled out my sidearm and gotten revenge. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #4 March 28, 2003 oh shit..let some punks throw rocks at me.... in OR out of uniform I will hunt them down! I dont go for that shit! if you wanna yell and scream fine but once you physically harm me I WILL react! if only in self defense, I WILL REACT My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattM 0 #5 March 28, 2003 just show them that face on your avaitar... they would get scared as hell.... Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #6 March 28, 2003 hehe You wouldnt like me when Im angry (bill bixby character)My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n2skdvn 0 #7 March 28, 2003 I think i would of done the same as the woman it takes alot to to turn the other cheek and not get in to a provoked fight. just proves who would rather resort to violence. peace protesters wanting to pick a fight go figure if my calculations are correct SLINKY + ESCULATOR = EVERLASTING FUN my site Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #8 March 28, 2003 this reminds me of repulsive behaviour on american's behalf in another time. when our soldiers came home from viet-nam, i recall vividly their fellow americans spitting in their faces, were that me, i would have initiated "deadly force" even now, spitting on someone is "assualt & battery" now, in some instances "assualt with a deadly weapon" if they're HIV positive. some people regardless of culture are just beneath contempt.--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cgross 1 #9 March 28, 2003 your right... A bit ironic don't you think? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #10 March 28, 2003 First, where the hell are these teenagers parents? They deserve the most humiliating spanking in front of their peers. I suggest a football stadium filled with their peers, pants around the ankles, and a wood paddle. These are our future leaders (God help us). I commend this woman for her strength to not slapping these punks stupid(er). JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,334 #11 March 28, 2003 Quotepeace protesters wanting to pick a fight go figure Remember you can get some people fired up about just about anything -- why wouldn't some young peace protesters be just as likely to target someone in uniform, as some young pro-war types are to vandalize a Frenchwoman's house? It's the same thing, and unacceptable. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #12 March 28, 2003 Yep...no matter what social group, political persuasion, religious affiliation, age, gender, race, ethnicity, or income.....any group of 3 or more people is bound to contain at least one jackoff. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,772 #13 March 28, 2003 >That is why i am not in the military... I would have pulled out my > sidearm and gotten revenge. Thus proving them right when they called you an (expletive) murderer. I think a much better tactic would be to get them arrested and put their pictures on pro-war posters - "these are the people who want peace?" Turn their own acts against them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JeffGordon 0 #14 March 28, 2003 One could make the argument that rock throwing constitutes assault with a deadly weapon and therefore deadly force is appropriate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,334 #15 March 28, 2003 QuoteOne could make the argument that rock throwing constitutes assault with a deadly weapon and therefore deadly force is appropriate Yeah. But it'd be a pretty piss-poor argument unless they really were life-threatening rocks, and it would help to justify some people's view of the military as potential bullies. I'd go for making the kids pay for any dings they put into her car. No one will disagree with it, no one will think it's unfair, and her car will get fixed. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JeffGordon 0 #16 March 28, 2003 I agree that shooting up a bunch of assholes like that is a little too extreme. I was actually using a hyperbole to make a point. The point is that what these teenagers did is an assault. They may be teenagers but 19 is a teenager. 19 is old enough to go into combat. Just read the casualty lists. Paying for dings in a car is not justice in this case and in fact the state of Vermont agrees with that. Quote Under Vermont law, assaulting or abusing a soldier because of membership in the military is a hate crime. Conviction could bring up to five years in prison. You are old enough and I am old enough to remember Vietnam vets being spit at and assaulted. I had friends who were attacked and beaten because they wore their uniform to the wrong place. What could have happened to this young woman if they had pushed it a little farther? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,334 #17 March 28, 2003 I'm not trying to say it was OK or anything like that. I'm saying that a really big stick isn't always the best way to make a disciplinary point. Not everyone is scared. Assaulting a homosexual because of their homosexuality is also considered a hate crime, and unless it's really severe, it's not usually prosecuted that way. I'm not trying to say they're the same, but they're not that different either. It is shameful that people spit on soldiers during the Vietnam era. But we can't punish people today for what their parents did. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #18 March 28, 2003 What's the difference between throwing life-threatening rocks and non-life-threatening rocks? I guess if they are non-life-threatening rocks, I would still pull out my 1911, but, I would just non-life-threateningly pistol whip each one I caught. Or, maybe, I could just shoot each one in the foot. That's non-life-threatening. Probably. Just as probably as non-life-threatening rocks being thrown into the wrong spot of the body, could become suddenly life threatening. Hmmm. Or, maybe when this person was trying to avoid the non-life-threatening rocks, she started to run through the parking lot and somebody talking on their cellphone wasn't paying attention and ran her over, killing her. Or, maybe she jumps in her car and someone increases the size of the non-life-threatening rocks since she's now protected and lobs a brick at her windshield and as she attempts to stop her car, she hits a baby carriage. Maybe these little fuckers should have been shot on the spot for treason. Do they still execute people for treason? mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,772 #19 March 28, 2003 >Paying for dings in a car is not justice in this case and in fact the > state of Vermont agrees with that. I agree; they should go to jail for attempted assault. >What could have happened to this young woman if they had pushed > it a little farther? She could have been injured, in which case they would have gone to jail for assault and battery. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,772 #20 March 28, 2003 >I would still pull out my 1911, but, I would just non-life-threateningly > pistol whip each one I caught. Then both you and the protesters would be in jail, and I'd be happy to see you both behind bars. Just as their claim that this woman was a "murderer" is no excuse for their actions, your violence against them because you were pissed off would be no excuse for your actions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #21 March 28, 2003 Bill, it's called self-defense and I am quite sure that a jury of 12 would find me innocent, since I had the means to escalate the situation, but didn't. See, people are not used to situations of this sort. If someone were arbitrarily assaulting you with stones, what is next? Bricks? A kid with a .38 he stole from daddy? This is not acceptable human behavior in this society. I repeat: This is not acceptable human behavior in this society. I am sorry. Defend these fucks if you like. But, in the situation, you have no fucking clue what's coming next. Responding to the situation is the only thing you can do. Keeping your head about you as you respond is your only defense both then and in the future when their just-as-fucked-up suburban, upper-middle-class two-job working parents come to sue you for defending yourself. And would I be pissed? Nope. The last time I got shot at I wasn't even pissed. Didn't cross my mind to get angry. I just grabbed cover and processed things much faster than normal. Situation-analysis-plan-reaction. Getting angry does not fit into that equation, nor is it a beneficial emotion when your life could possibly be on the line. Thank you, Good day. mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,772 #22 March 28, 2003 >Bill, it's called self-defense and I am quite sure that a jury of 12 > would find me innocent, since I had the means to escalate the > situation, but didn't. Uh, no. If you can run away, and you choose to pursue them instead, it's not self defense, it's assault. >If someone were arbitrarily assaulting you with stones . . . it is still better to run than to attack them or blow them away. If you can't run, then using force may be called for. >This is not acceptable human behavior in this society. Neither is vigilante style execution (or even assault) of those who throw things at you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schroeder 0 #23 March 28, 2003 why is deadly force even being considered? I think that waaay more often than not, a person may want to hit you, but not kill you. As a human in this society I would chose to be struck, sooner than kill someone to prevent them from hitting me. I know I know, in these situaions, you can't possibly know that your life isn't in danger etc etc, but come on, lets talk numbers here. How many fights are there every day across N. America, compared to the number of murders? The indifferent attitude towards killing people just blows me away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seedy 0 #24 March 28, 2003 Dude, get a grip. Handle it properly. Take it to......... the UN! I intend to live forever -- so far, so good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #25 March 28, 2003 I know I can't dissuade your opinion on this, but I can tell you that running is a very viable option. Running may also get the next guy coming out of the store killed. I never said I would pursue. I would also only use deadly force if I felt my life or the lives of those around me were threatened. I am not talking about vigilante justice here, or blowing them away, arbitrarily. Vigilante justice would be running far enough away to still be able to follow them home, then after a few days, sneaking into each one's house and carving a big smile in the neck of each with a rusty Kbar. Quite the contrary, I am talking about responding to an out-of-the-ordinary situation which could well be life-threatening. They were not throwing marshmallows, after all. mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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