fozchek 0 #1 April 4, 2003 Please visit the Department of Defense web page below and sign in thanking the men and women of the U.S. military services for their service. The compiled list of names will be sent out to our soldiers at the end of the month. So far, there are only about 6.5 million names. This is for National Military Appreciation Month. The entire exercise takes about 10 seconds. As a side note: I am not asking whether or not you support the war-- I am asking whether or not you support our troops. http://www.defendamerica.mil/nmam.html if I didn't make it clicky, could someone please do so for me? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #2 April 4, 2003 http://www.defendamerica.mil/nmam.html Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iflyme 0 #3 April 4, 2003 Quote I am not asking whether or not you support the war-- I am asking whether or not you support our troops. If you do one, you have to do the other ... and the opposite is true, too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #4 April 4, 2003 QuoteQuote I am not asking whether or not you support the war-- I am asking whether or not you support our troops. If you do one, you have to do the other ... and the opposite is true, too. ???"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fozchek 0 #5 April 4, 2003 I disagree. I feel that whether or not I wanted this war to happen, is now of little to no consequence. We are engaged in war. I have friends that are in Iraq right now, and I choose to support them and pray for a swift resolution. This thread should not become a pissing contest. You are entitled to your own opinion, and I respect it. I happen to disagree. The choice is to sign or not to sign. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,427 #6 April 4, 2003 >If you do one, you have to do the other ... and the opposite is true, too. I've been to several peace protests in the past two months - and I do support our troops. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,647 #7 April 4, 2003 QuoteQuote I am not asking whether or not you support the war-- I am asking whether or not you support our troops. If you do one, you have to do the other ... and the opposite is true, too. That is simply untrue. I think the decision to go to war when we did was very unwise. However, invade we did, and I strongly support our troops and wish for their rapid victory. My son is a US infantryman and many of my former students are US Navy, Marine or AF officers.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schroeder 0 #8 April 4, 2003 Ok, someone fill me in on how you can be against a war but support the troops that make it possible? I pray for them, but for victory? No, I don't support this war and I don't support the actions of the troops in a capacity other than getting safely back on boats, planes, whatever, and getting back home. At first saying you're anti-war, and then once everyone's over there and the ball is motion, saying you support the whole thing seems as ridiculous as saying that you're against rape, but in the back seat of your car your girlfriend decides at the last minute that it ain't gonna happen; but you think, "well, as long as I'm here" I don't know what the anti-war protesters thought war was in the first place, but it's the troops who make it happen, and now, to me at least, supporting them equates to supporting the war. And in a totally non-sarcastic tone, I'd really like for someone to tell me why it doesn't. Because if I'm seeing something wrong, or incorrectly, I'm the first guy to try and change my views to a correct stance, but I do need a good reason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,427 #9 April 4, 2003 >Ok, someone fill me in on how you can be against a war but >support the troops that make it possible? Same way you can be against police brutality but support the police. The police are vital to domestic peace, just as the military is vital to our national security. Their occasional errors do not condemn everything they do. Take an example. If I come across someone fighting with cops, and I am in a position to help, I'm going to be on the cops side, pretty much every time. If it turns out to be a bad arrest, or part of a concerted police attack on local blacks, I might protest it later. But there is a time to protest and a time to help the people we expect to protect us. >but it's the troops who make it happen, and now, to me at least, >supporting them equates to supporting the war. Not to me. Supporting the _people_ who are over there is different than supporting a policy of our government. Fortunately, our troops feel the same way. They are there to topple the government of Iraq, but have shown good restraint in not killing the _people_ of Iraq when it's avoidable. (It sometimes happens, of course, but that's war.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schroeder 0 #10 April 4, 2003 Quote If it turns out to be a bad arrest, or part of a concerted police attack on local blacks, I might protest it later. But there is a time to protest and a time to help the people we expect to protect us. Ok, then here's what I see you as saying: If a group which we'd like to think are vital to our security is doing something wrong, at first you'll side with them (under the reasonable assumption that they're really doing the right thing), but later protest. So in the case of this war, we have people protesting the action at first, then supporting the hands and tools that make that action possible? Kinda ass-backwards. Quote Supporting the _people_ who are over there is different than supporting a policy of our government. I agree with you completely. But I support the people, not their actions; as they are the very people who will make this policy (that you don't agree with) come to fruition. Just as before the war, I did not support the proposed actions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BBKid 0 #11 April 4, 2003 QuoteOk, someone fill me in on how you can be against a war but support the troops that make it possible? I pray for them, but for victory? Okay, so what happens if we pull out? All the POWs have to be returned, and Saddam and his boys murder them all, as well as probably invading the Kurdish controlled zone, or gassing them. That would be directly our fault. I didn't support this war, but now it's on we have to win. Just my tuppence in the jar. Nick --------------------------- "I've pierced my foot on a spike!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,427 #12 April 4, 2003 >So in the case of this war, we have people protesting the action at > first, then supporting the hands and tools that make that action > possible? Yes. The "hands and tools" do not decide to go to war, the "head" (our administration) does that. They are two separate entities. You can disagree with one and support the other. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,647 #13 April 4, 2003 QuoteOk, someone fill me in on how you can be against a war but support the troops that make it possible? I pray for them, but for victory? No, I don't support this war and I don't support the actions of the troops in a capacity other than getting safely back on boats, planes, whatever, and getting back home. At first saying you're anti-war, and then once everyone's over there and the ball is motion, saying you support the whole thing seems as ridiculous as saying that you're against rape, but in the back seat of your car your girlfriend decides at the last minute that it ain't gonna happen; but you think, "well, as long as I'm here" I don't know what the anti-war protesters thought war was in the first place, but it's the troops who make it happen, and now, to me at least, supporting them equates to supporting the war. And in a totally non-sarcastic tone, I'd really like for someone to tell me why it doesn't. Because if I'm seeing something wrong, or incorrectly, I'm the first guy to try and change my views to a correct stance, but I do need a good reason. Do you skydive? It may be that making the jump is unwise, but once you're out the door you simply have to go through with it. As I said, I thought (and still think) that GWB has some hidden agenda that made him invade before the UN inspectors had reported failure of their mission. However, that's water under the bridge. At this point the only possible way back home for our troops is through Baghdad.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schroeder 0 #14 April 4, 2003 Quote Yes. The "hands and tools" do not decide to go to war, the "head" (our administration) does that. They are two separate entities. You can disagree with one and support the other. I again totally see where you're coming from but I think where we differ is on what we support the troops in doing. QuoteDo you skydive? It may be that making the jump is unwise, but once you're out the door you simply have to go through with it. Well, at least I'd know why I went out the door in the first place... QuoteAs I said, I thought (and still think) that GWB has some hidden agenda that made him invade before the UN inspectors had reported failure of their mission. However, that's water under the bridge. How can it be water under the bridge? If you think that the entire premise is questionable, in the least bit, don't you think that in order to give full support that questionable premise should be resolved? Thousands and thousands are going to die because of a questionable premise, casualities on both sides, families destroyed, civilians murdered, all for a premise that is widely regarded as questionable? But to throw up your hands and say that we may as well just accept it and support it is likely precisely what the bush administration expected and planned on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,647 #15 April 4, 2003 QuoteQuote Yes. The "hands and tools" do not decide to go to war, the "head" (our administration) does that. They are two separate entities. You can disagree with one and support the other. I again totally see where you're coming from but I think where we differ is on what we support the troops in doing. QuoteDo you skydive? It may be that making the jump is unwise, but once you're out the door you simply have to go through with it. Well, at least I'd know why I went out the door in the first place... QuoteAs I said, I thought (and still think) that GWB has some hidden agenda that made him invade before the UN inspectors had reported failure of their mission. However, that's water under the bridge. How can it be water under the bridge? If you think that the entire premise is questionable, in the least bit, don't you think that in order to give full support that questionable premise should be resolved? Thousands and thousands are going to die because of a questionable premise, casualities on both sides, families destroyed, civilians murdered, all for a premise that is widely regarded as questionable? But to throw up your hands and say that we may as well just accept it and support it is likely precisely what the bush administration expected and planned on. Maybe it was what they planned on - so they're tricky and manipulative; tell me something that will surprise me. At this point we will do more damage if we stop and withdraw than we will by finishing the job. Remember what happened in 1991 when George the First promised help to the Shiites and Kurds, but then reneged.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #16 April 5, 2003 As someone who protested the war before the invasion, and then stopped, here is my answer to Schroeder: It is all about where we are in the course of the events. Some of us feel that there is a proper time for everything. I disagreed with our invasion, and did not want it to happen, so I protested. AFTER the invasion happened, I stopped. Why? Because I was now convinced it was proper for us to invade? Because I was afraid that it would be "unpatriotic?" No. Because it was the wrong time to change the path we were on. After the invasion we were past the point of no return. As much as I disagreed with the invasion in the first place, I was still able to visualize a worse scenario. What's worse that the USA fighting this war? Fighting HALF a war! Pulling out half way would make a bad situation much worse. We would have invaded, killed Iraqis, and STILL left Saddam in power to wreak a bloodbath against his own people. Our already-bad standing in the eyes of the world would become even worse. I believe the invasion was ill-advised, but pulling out halfway would be an act of near-insanity. AT THIS POINT the only course of action is to go through with it, and hope that things come out even half as rosy as Bush keeps saying it will. Therefore I support the troops and wish them a rapid victory. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schroeder 0 #17 April 5, 2003 Well Said, and I appreciate your saying it, as it was the sort of opinion and out-look I was looking for. I'll consider it heavily over the next few days. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TB99 0 #18 April 5, 2003 Thanks Gill, signed Trailer 11/12 was the best. Thanks for the memories ... you guys rocked! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
