TheAnvil 0 #26 April 23, 2003 Say what you like about Bill O'Reilly - he is interesting and rarely fails to generate discussion. I've heard him slam Democrats AND Republicans alike. As a matter of fact, I think he has dogged Bush and his brother Jeb far more virulently than any Democrat ever did (factually at least. Many of their lies were (and still are) rather harsh) on a number of different issues. Canada has always been an interesting neighbor - and normally a good one overall - to the US. Jean Chretien is an exception, I do believe, though he does have his reasons for making those remarks given the political climate in his country. Canada has problems - their health care system SUX, their entrance requirements are lax, etc - but what nation doesn't? My two cents. Beers to all. Vinny the Anvil Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cgross 1 #27 April 23, 2003 I resent that remark! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cgross 1 #28 April 23, 2003 QuoteThe suggestion that the french boycott has had any effect at all is completely false. The price or french wine has actually gone up in the last few monthes, because of an especially tasty batch of Bordeau. O'Reilly should really do some research before writing editorials. He has done his research have you? Even if you don't like O'reilly, I dare you to question his facts. That is what make him so notorious... the fact that he can back up almost everything he says with FACT. You are speculating. His recent stats come fron Steven Moore, President of"the club for growth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #29 April 23, 2003 AndyMan, cgross is right on this one. I read an article the other day reporting that French businessmen admitted the boycott HAS had an effect. If I run across it again I'll post a link. In need of a beer, The Anvil Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,132 #30 April 23, 2003 I'm no expert on Bill O'Reilly, but I'm not that impressed with his ability to find facts that justify his opinions. You can find facts to support almost any opinion. Like, for instance, that skydiving is safer than driving. The trick is in being able to recognize when you have to adjust your opinion to the full set of facts. Simply limiting the basis of your assumption isn't always valid. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cgross 1 #31 April 23, 2003 This is true of any persuasive arguement, but what bill does unlike some media channels, is separates his opinion/editorials from reporting. This doesn't happen on CNN, ABC, NBC. Some people don't like Bill O, and I understand that. I don't agree with everything he says, but to call his reporting not factual and him an asshole is absurd. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,132 #32 April 23, 2003 QuoteThis doesn't happen on CNN, ABC, NBC. Well, often they do. It's just that since they sometimes pick different facts from the ones you'd think are important, you find them to be unpersuasive. Don't you think folks like me think that Fox has a slant? Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #33 April 23, 2003 I think you need to be a bit more aware of whats on the other networks. To suggest that Bill O'Reilly is somehow the hallmark of journalistic ethics is one of the most ludicrous statements I've ever seen. Fox is constantly ridiculed for it's complete lack of ethics, and O'Reilly is at the top of that list. The fact that he's popular does not make him a good journalist. Usually, it's the exact opposite. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cgross 1 #34 April 23, 2003 Oh, yes... of course I know you think that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #35 April 23, 2003 Quote but to call...him an asshole is absurd. well I think we should put this to a vote. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cgross 1 #36 April 23, 2003 Who is doing the ridiculing???? The NY times? The Washington post? or is it CNN who is getting destroyed by Fox in the ratings???? See it just goes to show you it does matter where you get your news. You and I will differ because where we get our new is constantly battling with eachother. What I am saying is that he unlike some editorialist have the ability to separate his OPINION from his reporting. Sure, they are in the same show, but it is clearly stated when opinions are given. Many other shows are not so separate, and their views are "spun" into the story. Back in the day when TV first came out, all the newspapers used to bash TV reporting. Actuall it still happens to some degree. When cable news came out, and the network guys saw their popularity waning they too lashed out against cable news. The network guys are a dying breed, and they should be. THey are just clone of eachother (Rather, Brokaw, Jennings) Now you are seeing a battle internally between the cable stations. All of them trying to discredit the others. It is kind of like what is happening in this world. The USA is the top dog, and the rest of the world is against us for it. FOXNEWS is the topdog, and the other channels hate them for it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,132 #37 April 23, 2003 QuoteWhat I am saying is that he unlike some editorialist have the ability to separate his OPINION from his reporting. I think that what I'm saying is that editing what facts you report on to support your story is editorializing just as much as stating your opinion. For instance -- clearly there are French exporters who are being harmed by boycotts. Just as clearly there are a significant number who are not. It's just as dishonest to say they aren't when one is affected, as it is to say they are, when only one is. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,412 #38 April 23, 2003 >It may raise some anger from canadians on this forum, but read >it close...He defends canadians but not their leader. Yep. I wish most Americans could make a similar distinction between Chirac and the French people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cgross 1 #39 April 23, 2003 Correct, but that doesn't look at the economy as a whole. The %'s he was talking about refered to French tourism as a whole. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n2skdvn 0 #40 April 23, 2003 Le BOOBIES....EH!! if my calculations are correct SLINKY + ESCULATOR = EVERLASTING FUN my site Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,412 #41 April 23, 2003 >but to call his reporting not factual and him an asshole is absurd. I wouldn't call him an asshole, but on a scale of fact to blatant skewing of the news to support his latest view, he's pretty far away from facts. He is one of the many people who gets watched for entertainment value rather than as a serious news source. I note that people who constantly proclaim how they are immune from spin and any sort of left/right slant are often the worst offenders when it comes to slant. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cgross 1 #42 April 23, 2003 Well bill, I am starting to come around.. especially after news of people in chirac's government turning on him, but that is still a tough one for me. Let's face it, "The French" really don't like the US too much. They like our $$$, but not us as people. They think we are all fat, greedy, and arrogant. Obviously not everyone in France thinks this way, but a good amount do. I know someone who's parents were born and raised there, and they just moved to another country, bucause they could stand the French arrogance... It goes both ways. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,132 #43 April 23, 2003 QuoteLet's face it, "The French" really don't like the US too much. They like our $$$ Well, they'd probably like most anyone's money. Just as we do. You choose to read and believe the stories that emphasize the antagonism towards Americans in France. What's funny is I've seen and heard a significant number of stories about people having a grand time in France. I can even contribute to that body of stories. And something to consider is that folks who go to France expecting to be treated like dirt will probably have their dreams come true. Funny how that works. It'd work in Omaha, too. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,412 #44 April 23, 2003 >Let's face it, "The French" really don't like the US too much. They > like our $$$, but not us as people. They think we are all fat, greedy, > and arrogant. How dare they! So we're the most obese country in the world. So we represent only 4% of the world's population but use 33% of the total amount of stuff produced throughout the world. How dare they call use fat or greedy! Next thing you know they'll be calling us oil-dependent or the world's leading greenhouse gas producer. But seriously, most french people I've met are pretty good people. I think they're like people anywhere - if you are nice to them they're nice to you. Paris is an exception, but then, so is Manhattan. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #45 April 23, 2003 QuoteSee it just goes to show you it does matter where you get your news. You and I will differ because where we get our new is constantly battling with eachother. Actually, I rarely watch CNN. I think they suck. I do watch Fox, and I'll even occaisionally watch O'Reilly. He's funny, a good entertainer. Just like Jerry Springer, or Oprah, Letterman, or Jon Stewart. I say this not because of left or right, I say this because some people do news, others do entertainment. Bill O'Reilly is clearly in the realm of entertainment. Just like Bill Maher, or Jon Stewart. If he's your idea of a serious newsman, well... I think you need to be a little more critical. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #46 April 23, 2003 Quote As to the suggestion that Canada is close to "serious pain", unless he's refering to military action, I see little pain. The US needs Canadian lumber and Oil far more then Canada needs anything from the US. ... .... If the US wants to play a trade war, they will lose. I don't dispute your argument per se, but do dispute your projection. The Canadian economy is not all rosy as you depict. Real growth from 1993-2000 was about 3% annually. That turned into a decline in 2001 with moderate "recovery" in 02. Unemployment is UP. Tax rates are UP. 2002 Canadian Purchasing Power Parity (GDP) $923B compare that to the US at $10.1T (Trillion). That is 10 times. Macro economics and a trade war would crush the Canadian economy in less than a year if it was played seriously (i.e. complete embargo, no holds barred, etc). 75% of the workforce in Canada is "services" based. Where do those services come from? 85% of exports go to the US, and 73% of imports come from the US. Whereas those Canadian exports comprise less than 1/5th of the major imports to the US. Throw in the political environment of a possible split in the federation and continued flow of people leaving Canada to live in the US because of lower taxes, and better infrastructure. Their only plus right now a trade surplus. How long would that last if 80% of that was lost? Speaking of politics, the fact that the trip by President Bush was bumped is a significant political statement. I think Canada is a beautiful country, and Canadians are a cool lot. Her politics though, yikes, they trouble me deeply. BTW: President Bush was elected to office. The Miami Herald verified the Florida ballot independently (check for yourself). The Electoral votes were cast correctly.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #47 April 23, 2003 QuoteI think Canada is a beautiful country, and Canadians are a cool lot. Her politics though, yikes, they trouble me deeply. Odd, that this is exactly what most Canadians, and Western Europeans think of the US. I won't argue your economic arguement, but I do see it quite differently. I'm not just pulling it out of my ass, either - My BA had a minor in political science and economics. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murrays 0 #48 April 23, 2003 Jean Chretien is an ASS. It pains me to no end to have Canada represented by this corrupt, two-faced, fence-sitting little asshole. I am disgusted by Chretien, his employees and some of the other Liberal MP's remarks towards GWB and the USA. I can't believe the crap being spouted. The end of his time as Prime Minister cannot happen fast enough for this Canadian. Also, here's a skydiving reason to dislike him....Chretien's son, Hubert, used to skydive at a dz I jumped at in the 80's. Hubert's Dad didn't like him jumping and blamed skydiving for his son's academic performance at University, not accepting Hubert's feelings that studying in English was too difficult for him. Hubert would have preferred to go to a French speaking university but I think Dad wanted him to go to a prestigious English speaking school. Hubert stopped jumping shortly after I heard this and I think Dad forced him to quit. No proof, but the writing was on the wall. Jean Chretien is an asshole. (It's worth repeating)-- Murray "No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kiltboy 0 #49 April 23, 2003 Sorry but I need to clarify that the BBC is financed by parliament under law. It is not run by the state there is no Minister for the BBC in the house of commons. There is another Independant News Service funded by advertising called ITN. Sky news is also braodcast from the UK and is owned by Rupert Murdoch the same guy taht owns Fox. There is no government run paper so to insinuate that there is no free press could be insulting but I'll take it as ill informed. I've seen piss poor journalism on both ssides of the ocean in the last few months. David Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #50 April 23, 2003 QuoteThe fact that he's popular does not make him a good journalist. Usually, it's the exact opposite. The reason he is popular is because he is a good journalist. Not biased like some other reporters. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
