Sewing seat belt

[GussoneR 0]

Hello,

a friend of mine has a problem on his seat belt on his Cap 10, that needs some sewing work. Who has the ability to do this job ? Wich kind of thread would you use ? I don't know what the manufacturer recommend... Let me know if you know a better place to discuss this

[mjosparky 3]

Aircraft seat belts are a TSO'd item.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[likestojump 3]

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Aircraft seat belts are a TSO'd item.

Sparky

Quoting an FAA standard to someone in France is not really productive...

[CygnusX-1 42]

What? You mean the FAA does not govern over the entire world.

[JohnRich 4]

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Quoting an FAA standard to someone in France is not really productive...

He didn't state where he was from, therefore the answer Sparky gave was a prudent one since most participants here seem to be American. If the original poster had wanted to limit responses to only things which apply in France, then he should have said so. So the error lies there, not with Sparky. Pardon Sparky for trying to be helpful.

[GussoneR 0]

Thanks for your answers & PM. It's always intersting to know what the FAA says for a senior rigger, even if I'm in France ;)

[likestojump 3]

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Quoting an FAA standard to someone in France is not really productive...

He didn't state where he was from, therefore the answer Sparky gave was a prudent one since most participants here seem to be American. If the original poster had wanted to limit responses to only things which apply in France, then he should have said so. So the error lies there, not with Sparky. Pardon Sparky for trying to be helpful.

The poster has FRANCE stated right below his name, no need to even click on their profile.

Pardon me for paying attention to the very obvious.

Are you going to send me another "Fuck you" PM now ?

[mjosparky 3]

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Aircraft seat belts are a TSO'd item.

Sparky

Quoting an FAA standard to someone in France is not really productive...

I apologize. I will try and follow your lead and be more productive in the future.

Back off John he was just trying to be productive in his posts.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[JohnRich 4]

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Quoting an FAA standard to someone in France is not really productive...

He didn't state where he was from, therefore the answer Sparky gave was a prudent one since most participants here seem to be American. If the original poster had wanted to limit responses to only things which apply in France, then he should have said so. So the error lies there, not with Sparky. Pardon Sparky for trying to be helpful.

The poster has FRANCE stated right below his name, no need to even click on their profile.
Pardon me for paying attention to the very obvious.
Are you going to send me another "Fuck you" PM now ?

And you have a blank where the license number goes - should we all assume then that you don't have a license?

Let's face it, you were too quick to be nasty with your reply. Sparky didn't deserve that.

And with your last sentence, you demonstrate once again that you're too quick to be nasty, thereby confirming my original comment, and also that you deserved what you got by PM.

[likestojump 3]

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Quote

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Quoting an FAA standard to someone in France is not really productive...

He didn't state where he was from, therefore the answer Sparky gave was a prudent one since most participants here seem to be American. If the original poster had wanted to limit responses to only things which apply in France, then he should have said so. So the error lies there, not with Sparky. Pardon Sparky for trying to be helpful.

The poster has FRANCE stated right below his name, no need to even click on their profile.
Pardon me for paying attention to the very obvious.
Are you going to send me another "Fuck you" PM now ?

And you have a blank where the license number goes - should we all assume then that you don't have a license?

Let's face it, you were too quick to be nasty with your reply. Sparky didn't deserve that.

And with your last sentence, you demonstrate once again that you're too quick to be nasty, thereby confirming my original comment, and also that you deserved what you got by PM.

Sure, you can make that assumption. And it shouldn't affect the validity of my reply or of any prior or subsequent posts I make on these forums.

There was nothing nasty about my reply. I simply pointed out that the OP was in France, and that mandates from a US regulatory agency aren't helpful to them.

It's very convenient to justify yourself to yourself, ain't it ?

Why can't we just agree to disagree ...

[LouDiamond 1]

Gentlemen, I have removed a few posts from this thread. Let me remind everyone that this is a topical forum and not BF/SC. Please reserve the bickering to PMs amongst yourselves if you wish to go tit for tat with one another. As always, post your responses here and in PM's the same way you would if you were speaking to that person face to face.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[fcajump 153]

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Thanks for your answers & PM. It's always intersting to know what the FAA says for a senior rigger, even if I'm in France ;)

I do not recall anything in my rigger training (Senior or Master) that permits me to make repairs to TSO'ed components of the aircraft/airframe. It only extends to me the authorization to do so to personnel parachutes.

While I suspect that a Master Rigger has more training on repair of webbing sewn components, I suspect that an FAA licensed aircraft mechanic would be required... in the USA.

As for France... maybe similar, maybe not... couldn't say.

The closest I've been asked to do was a (non-TSO'ed) replacement safety strap for a wing-walker stantion on a bi-plane... Replicated the original part, but no idea who had built that... Original worked for 30+ years. I plan to get them to replace them a little more frequently from now on...

JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[riggerrob 558]

Officially, FAA- licensed Senior and Master riggers can only work on TSO-C23? parachutes.
They cannot legally repair seat-belts certified under TSO-C22.
However, if an Aircraft Maintenance Engineer (A&P in the USA) is willing to sign on top of the repair, then a parachute rigger may re-sew seat-belts.
This is similar to an A&P hiring a welder, then signing on top of the weld.
Un-officially, if the parachute rigger sews neatly - and his work closely resembles the original TSOed stitch pattern, nothing will happen.
There are even fewer restrictions on seat-belts for experimental (homebuilt or kit-built) or restricted (agricultural or warbird) aircraft.

The key point is understanding the design and loading of seat-belts. If you do not understand the loads imposed on seat-belts, then copy the original exactly (quoting Sandy Reid).
... Ooh! If you copy the original exactly, the FAA Inspector will probably not notice the difference!

[riggerrob 558]

Most seat belts are sewn with: Type 9 webbing, 3 inch wide, 9000 pounds, or Type 24 webbing, 2 inches wide, 5500 pounds.
The wider webbing is popular with aerobatic pilots, who "push" a lot of negative Gs, that try to lift them out of their seats.

Two inch wide webbing is used for most other seat-belts in airplanes and cars.

Most seat-belts are sewn with FF thread (16 pounds), seat-belts can also be sewn with 5 cord (40 pounds).
Since FF thread is only used in one percent of parachute container repairs, not all riggers stock FF thread.

5 cord is stronger than you need for seat-belts, but most Master Riggers already have 5 cord in their harness machines.

All these materials are available from major parachute supply houses like Para-Gear.

[holie 0]

... European Stuff ;-)

... As a result of an investigation on some maintenance organisations, EASA was
made aware that safety belts and torso restraint systems manufactured by
authorised (E)TSO approval holders, have been maintained or repaired by
maintenance organisations without holding approved maintenance data.
EC Regulation 145.A.45 requires that (E)TSO approved parts and appliances
can be maintained or repaired only if approved maintenance data provided by
the (E)TSO approval holder are used, pending the loss of validity of the
(E)TSO approval and installation onto the aircraft. ...


If it helps ;-)

[riggerrob 558]

Welcome to bureaucracy trumping sewing experience.

Remember that several airframe manufacturers (e.g. Cessna) say that seat-belts should be replaced every decade. (Try to picture the worst-case scenario: airplane parked outside, in the sun, hundreds of passengers tracking sand, oil, vomit, ???, etc. into the cabin).

As a Canadian Aircraft Maintenance Engineer explained it to me recently: "There are only two shops (one in Ontario and the other in Calgary) in Canada (Transport Canada) approved to re-web seat-belts. A man could make a fortune if he could get TC approval to set up a third shop."

Allan Silver has also grumbled long and loud about his frustration at applying for FAA approval to sew seat-belts for certified airplanes. Allan is a well respected FAA DPRE and has sewn seat-belts for hundreds of restricted (warbirds) and experimental (amateur-built) airplanes, but cannot get past te notion that the FAA only wants to certify a handful of (American) shops to sew seat-belts for certified airplanes?????