Safety Question

[sipi 0]

Probably a stupid question but is the pilot in command supposed to announce "jumpers away" or something to that effect when someone jumps out of his aircraft? And if not, why? Wouldn't anyone want to have an added level of safety in a congested area?

[BIGUN 1,053]

Our pilots do it on every load.
In fact, they communicate 5 minutes out, 3 minutes out, 1 minute out.
Jumpers Away
Jumpers on the ground.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[sipi 0]

Thanks for the quick response. Is that required by your insurance or the FAR? or would you say you have to go over and above the basic requirements to keep your customer/student safe to keep them from being in the fatality

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statistics section of the site?

[diverdriver 5]

In the USA FAR 105 says we have to have communication with ATC at least 5 minutes prior to commencing drop operations. Then usually the jump pilot will make a two minute call and a jumpers away call. Then they will check off with ATC on the way down unless there is some need to keep them on for traffic avoidance or maybe if they notice a high deployment they weren't expecting.

Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125

[stratostar 5]

As others have said, yes they should, but there are some operators who have been known to fly with out working transponders and radios as well as dropping in VMC with those systems inop.

Just in case your a pilot who has had unexpected bodys falling pass your wing tips with no radio calls of jumpers away.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[tombuch 0]

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In the USA FAR 105 says we have to have communication with ATC at least 5 minutes prior to commencing drop operations. Then usually the jump pilot will make a two minute call and a jumpers away call. Then they will check off with ATC on the way down unless there is some need to keep them on for traffic avoidance or maybe if they notice a high deployment they weren't expecting.

Both the five minute call, and a call to advise that the last jumper has left the aircraft are required by 105.13. Many operations also have a Letter of Agreement with ATC that specifies additional radio calls, for example a two minute call on one or more frequencies, call when last parachutist lands, or a call on the public UNICOM frequency.

Radio calls should be clear and specific. For example, a call such as "jumping in progress at Freefall Adventures" means nothing to a transient pilot, while "Skydiving in two minutes over Scottsdale Airport, 10,000 and below" provides much more detail, and a better fix on exactly where the jumping is taking place. As the first poster suggested in his question, radio calls are an important safety element, and jumpers should expect pilots to use good radio procedures.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[riggerrob 558]

Trivial point: if the DZ and ATC have a letter of understanding - to jump in controlled airspace - the pilot probably also needs ATC "clearance to drop skydivers."

[tombuch 0]

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Trivial point: if the DZ and ATC have a letter of understanding - to jump in controlled airspace - the pilot probably also needs ATC "clearance to drop skydivers."

Not at all. An LOA simply sets up responsibilities and expectations on both sides. In many cases an LOA is designed to assist in communication and hand-offs between various sectors or agencies such as when a jump plane climbs out of Approach airspace into Center airspace.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[sipi 0]

Mr. Buchanan,
Your verbiage leads me to believe you are an intelligent person. What would you say if the jumps that I'm inquiring about were conducted in non-towered airspace, with no radio communication about when, how many jumers away, and in Class E airspace with commercial operators conducting business (and has to complete evasive action to avoids said jumpers) and a somewhat busy airspace. A local NOTAM was issued per FAR 105, however, when asked to notify the airport affected staff weretold it wasn't required but would be a bother to the company to do so.

[GrabGrass 0]

Care to clarify with Names, Places, N-numbers and Times?


Or barring that fill out your profile?

~ "Pack Fast, Pull Low... and Date Your Riggers WIFE!" ~

[stratostar 5]

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What would you say if the jumps that I'm inquiring about were conducted in non-towered airspace, with no radio communication about when, how many jumers away, and in Class E airspace

Wouldn't surprise me, been on a few of those loads myself. Also seen more then plane dodge'n canopies as they open up, looked kinda like anti aircraft flack bursts and evasive action to avoids said jumpers a zig zaging thru if you will.

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Mr. Buchanan,
Your verbiage leads me to believe you are an intelligent person.

Yea his is a smart cookie and provides a lot of good info here. "Diverdriver" is also a good person here to ask questions. www.diverdriver.com

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[sipi 0]

Tahoe!

[sipi 0]

so, who's liability insurance will cover the idiot that doesn't make the call that there are jumpers away? Who keeps the kids out of foster care because someone couldn't be "bothered" to make the call?

I don'lt like golf but i don't tell golfers they can't play a stupid game. I don't like skydiving either but everyone has the right to kill themselves prematurely but they DO NOT have the right to take me out with them.

[angrypeppers 1]

Hey Sipi...

The DZ where I try to prematurely kill myself has very knowledgeable and responsible pilots. We are on the edge of Denver's airspace, so pilot calls are critical. If I didn't feel safe with them, I wouldn't board the plane. Hell, I think most of our pilots are current jumpers, or at least have jumped. That being said, in my short time in the sport, I've seen far more potential incidents caused by general aviation pilots. And for the record, I'm a pilot too...couple of hundred hours, so I'm a newbie there too. But I can read and interpret charts. And see the little parachute symbols. And read NOTAMs. And listen to ATC, even when they aren't calling me. On more than several occasions, I've seen pilots fly straight over the landing area at what appeared to be not much more than pattern altitude while canopies were in the air. I've seen gliders that appeared to track jumpers under canopy. I'm not saying that every jump pilot is making every required call on every load, or doesn't do something questionable now and again. I'm sure it happens, I just haven't seen that.

Not liking skydiving is your choice and I have no problems with that. Some people like meat, some don't. But, you will get much better responses here if: 1. You fill out your profile, or at least give some details on yourself, and what prompted your question, and 2. Don't be quite so confrontational. We skydivers are a fairly smart bunch. And we enjoy living. If we can do something to avoid dying, I'll bet most of us would be willing to listen. But if we're barked at, then most likely we'll bark back, and not much will get accomplished. Something sparked your post, so give us some details, and take a deep breath before typing. You may get the answers to your questions.

Chris

Burn the land and boil the sea,
You can't take the sky from me.

[sipi 0]

can't take the risk. no mas thanks though

[mbondvegas 0]

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can't take the risk. no mas thanks though

You can't take the risk to fill out your profile?

- - -
I am not afraid of tomorrow, for I have seen yesterday and I love today.

[camamel 0]

Thanks Chris
I am 100% behind you with this post and I think you write it the good way. I think the rule should be, on DZ.COM , in order to reply to some body you have to fill out your profile.
I think I will work on that with Sangrio.

Richard

When you think you're good...this is when you become dangerous.