chuteless 1 #101 August 13, 2003 I most certainly do believe in GOD, and Jesus Christ is the SON of GOD. Absolutely!!!!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bwilling 0 #102 August 13, 2003 I absolutely, positively, believe in something... Someday, I may figure out exactly what that something is. In the mean time, I try to remember to be thankful for everything something has given me, all the great things I've gotten to experience in this, the most bizarre of all adventures, life. "If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingMarc 0 #103 August 13, 2003 Yeah, that! I always find myself thanking God for the chance to live while I'm on the plane going up, even though most of the rest of the time I'm not sure what exists and if He(She, It, Whatever) has anything to do with us at all. But there have been times in my life when I've been certain that something is Out There, and it's Good. Skydiving helps me find that. I swear I'm not debating, Keely! M Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
digurman 0 #104 August 14, 2003 On what evidence do you believe that? If you take a coin and flip it 1000 times you are going to get heads about half the time. If you pray for tails it will not affect the outcome. You'll find that more serious probability studies also produce results with predictable outcomes, e.g. birth defects happen at predictable rates regardless of the prayers or beliefs of the parents, et al. As for Jesus ... Why would God want his son to be sacrificed? Why would he require the sacrifice of animals? Evangelicals believe that animal sacrifice will re-emerge in Israel in the last days. Where did this practice originate? Well it occurs in many ancient cultures. Blood is required to appease a violent god. With limited knowledge of the weather, disease, geography, astronomy, etc. it was believe that sacrifice was the only way to prevent his wrath. If you read the old testament you will see that God speaks to man through his heart. Other organs are referred to as the seat of different emotions, such as courage, even thought. There is no mention of the brain because the ancients had no knowledge of the brain. If you think it through, it is apparent that the biblical notion of God's relationship to man, the concepts of sacrifice and salvation, etc. are just the beliefs of primitive man. There is little else in the body of ancient knowledge that is still held to be true, but for some reason people think that 3000 year old religious beliefs are still valid. I once held the bible to be sacred, but when I did an objective analysis I came away with the freedom to cry out, "Hey Satan, pay my dues." Now he really exists. No doubt about it. Me and Satan, we be mates. Words aren't real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #105 August 14, 2003 QuoteWhy would God want his son to be sacrificed? Why would he require the sacrifice of animals? Evangelicals believe that animal sacrifice will re-emerge in Israel in the last days. Where did this practice originate? Read the Bible.. All the answers you are asking about are in there.. Yes I believe in God.. I talk to him every day.. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #106 August 14, 2003 QuoteIf you think it through, it is apparent that the biblical notion of God's relationship to man, the concepts of sacrifice and salvation, etc. are just the beliefs of primitive man. There is little else in the body of ancient knowledge that is still held to be true, but for some reason people think that 3000 year old religious beliefs are still valid. It seems like it bothers you that people believe in God. I've done a lot of reading and study on the existance of God. I can't seem to come to as decisive of a conclusion as you have. I respect your decision but you must admit that the answer is not as obvious as you are trying to make it. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsled92 0 #107 August 14, 2003 WE (the planet) have an error*, we ALL worship 1 God, the SAME God, but travel different paths in hopes to reach the SAME place) I am still alive: that is proof. From childhood, I never thought past 30 because I didn't plan to last that long (live hard, play hard...). I have an oldest daughter:16 and a daughter:13 and a son 18 months old. Much proof indeed. I belive in SCIENCE and proven facts, too. Science has brought forth much "proof" of Biblical events in question.(that's not what "faith" means) Man has NEVER created anything, just discovered or invented from exhisting matter. I searched and found that "science" is just a tool to work on wath we already have and it is boundless. Our ideas of GOD will be as different as our DNA, always. "One day Man will look into a microscope and see the eye of GOD looking back at him." -Amen_______________________________ If I could be a Super Hero, I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year. http://www.hangout.no/speednews/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,464 #108 August 14, 2003 >As for Jesus ... Why would God want his son to be sacrificed? >Why would he require the sacrifice of animals? No idea. Why do we cut the tips off the penises of baby boys? Why do we allow porn that shows all manner of sex acts but not allow women to show their chests in public? Why is it OK for men to do it? I think the answer to most of these questions is tradition and custom. Having odd traditions and customs does not make a religion invalid any more than it makes our modern society invalid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,464 #109 August 14, 2003 >Science has brought forth much "proof" of Biblical events in >question.(that's not what "faith" means) In fairness, it has also disproven a lot of biblical accounts. >Man has NEVER created anything, just discovered or invented from >exhisting matter. We've created antimatter, which wasn't something created from existing matter. We've demonstrated the casimir effect, and shown that we can capture particles that are spontaneously created from empty space. We've created computer viruses, which have no material form at all yet show many of the signs of life. I agree that much of what we do is just moving atoms around, yet one such stirring millenia ago created life to begin with. Whether there was divine intervention there or whether it was a result of a random process is a topic of much debate of course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsled92 0 #110 August 14, 2003 Quote>Science has brought forth much "proof" of Biblical events in >question.(that's not what "faith" means) In fairness, it has also disproven a lot of biblical accounts. >Man has NEVER created anything, just discovered or invented from >exhisting matter. We've created antimatter, which wasn't something created from existing matter. We've demonstrated the casimir effect, and shown that we can capture particles that are spontaneously created from empty space. We've created computer viruses, which have no material form at all yet show many of the signs of life. I agree that much of what we do is just moving atoms around, yet one such stirring millenia ago created life to begin with. Whether there was divine intervention there or whether it was a result of a random process is a topic of much debate of course. using Man invented tools_______________________________ If I could be a Super Hero, I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year. http://www.hangout.no/speednews/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #111 August 14, 2003 QuoteQuoteWhy would God want his son to be sacrificed? Why would he require the sacrifice of animals? Evangelicals believe that animal sacrifice will re-emerge in Israel in the last days. Where did this practice originate? Read the Bible.. All the answers you are asking about are in there.. Yes I believe in God.. I talk to him every day.. there are far better places to search for answers than the mythos of one of the most violent culture on earth...places that will not assign you guilt in a cosmic crime as a means of controlling your actions.. you can paint a christian face on divinity, but that in no way means it is the only one she wears...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freebird 0 #112 August 14, 2003 It is our ability to ponder these questions, which in turn, proves exactly what is , is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
digurman 0 #113 August 14, 2003 I have read it extensively. There may be some pertinence on the surface of the earth, but I don't think God's realm reaches into the sky. The writers of the torah and the creator of Christianity, Paul, had little knowledge of anything above the surface of earth. And of course they believed it was flat and that there was a lake of fire under it. Like one of the early victims of Christianity said, "the church says the earth is flat, but I can see its shadow on the moon and it is round." People were killed by the church for such discoveries and the distrust of the church by scientists continues today. If Christians ever control government again, expect to see burning and torture come back into play. All my family members are Christians and they are harmless, but they will believe whatever they are told by their ministers. They worship their creator and bring offerings as the earliest humans did. They symbolically drink blood and eat the flesh of the sacrificial Christ. An objective observer would see the similiarities between the Aztec and Christian faiths. If you want to study the lifestyle and beliefs of the early Christians, just look in present day Lebanon. It is the sorriest site on the planet. Words aren't real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
digurman 0 #114 August 14, 2003 Good answer Zenister. I can learn from you. Just don't ask me to burn animals because God loves the smell. Name some twisted thing and it can be found in the bible. They did give us the notion that we shouldn't murder and steal from each other. I like that part. They could have left out the sexual codes though. Words aren't real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,166 #115 August 14, 2003 I thought we promised we were going to keep this light -- never piss off someone called Shotgun . You never know how she got the nickname Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
digurman 0 #116 August 14, 2003 I work with a group I call the Christian Coalition. This is my only chance to vent. It's all good. I really like religious studies, but I can never get a Christian to engage in conversation regarding the relationship between the sacrifice of Christ and the ancient sacrificial practices that preceded it. Also, how about the other 100,000 poor SOBs that were nailed to crosses in Roman times. They don't even get easter eggs. One of my favorite Christian tales involves 15th century sailors stranded at sea. They finally came to land and saw bodies on stakes, burning all along the beach. One sailor exclaimed, "thank God, we've come to a Christian land." Words aren't real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #117 August 14, 2003 God is unknowable, beyond our understanding. So all the names, explanations and so forth are attempts to understand something of God's unknowable nature. The bummer starts when people insist that their limited and imperfect understanding is the way, the only way. I believe in a God that's beyond my understanding and I'm always interested in genuine inquiry about God's nature. There, and I said all that without any male pronouns either. Thanks for the poll Keely. I do think that spirituality is as deep a human need as eating and reproducing. We need to know why we're here and what it's all about, even if there is no answer. It can be one of the most interesting things to talk about, as long as people can refrain from dogma. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
digurman 0 #118 August 14, 2003 This goes to the heart of the matter. Their is science and their is religion. Christians tell me that things "just are." Science reveals a number of laws that govern the universe and I have never, ever, seen God intervene. George Carlin can explain it better than me. Words aren't real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
digurman 0 #119 August 14, 2003 There is an answer. I had some time on my hands and spent two years studying the major religions, human behavior, anthropology, etc. One of the toughest questions was the existence of evil. My studies showed that "God" was a false notion that evolved from primitive man, but there did seem to be an evil force in the world. If evil existed then my conclusions were in error. Wouldn't you know it. The concept of evil had been extensively studied and found not to exist. Evil turns out to be a result of several different human emotions and the circumstances humans find themselves in. I have a dog that is very smart. She tries to talk and use her hands like a person, because I treat her like one. Ten million years from now her decendents will be arguing about god. Words aren't real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #120 August 14, 2003 QuoteYes I believe in God.. I talk to him every day.. And whaddaya mean I don't support your system? I go to court when I have to.... - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SublimeBreeze 0 #121 August 14, 2003 I go wee wee standing up. Sean Sean In Thailand Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #122 August 14, 2003 Oh well, so much for asking nicely... guess I can't mention God without some people feeling the need to argue about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #123 August 14, 2003 QuoteI thought we promised we were going to keep this light -- never piss off someone called Shotgun . You never know how she got the nickname Thanks, Wendy. And yes, probably better not to piss me off... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyAnt 0 #124 August 14, 2003 I'm thinking you got that name from drinking beer the fast way. "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke (1729-1797) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #125 August 14, 2003 I believe in Multiple Gods. If there was one God, he'd be a pervert to allow people to fight over him so. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
