Austintxflight 0 #1 October 18, 2011 So I'm flying a Nav 220 and want to go down Stiletto 150 because its just soo much easier to pack. Ok just kidding, but I knew it would get more people's attention. I'm reality I am flying the NAV 220, I stand up all my landings just fine and am thinking of demo'ing the Sabre 210 that they have on my DZ. So my original WL is 0.795:1 the Sabre2 WL would be 0.833:1 I have talked to my DZO's my instructors and they think its ok once I finish my A-license and have seen me under canopy. I am just wanting to hear people's opinion on the switch from NAV 220 to Sabre 210. I have heard that some dropzones (skydive chicago I think) use Sabre's for their students. The PD website has me on the weight to keep me in the student range for that canopy. Just to reconfirm I am not buying, just going to demo the one they have on the DZ. I am not, repeat not trying to pull a Sangi (heal quick). I am signed up to take a canopy control class in December when I am going to be in Eloy for a week. I am very safety conscious, maybe overly (but I figure it can't ever be overboard in this sport). When I finally bought my own analog Alti, the first jump I wore the older rental one to know it was working. I have no desire to bounce or push my limits beyond my skills. There is a very good chance I don't do it, as the most weight I will give is to my instructors and DZO who have seen all my landings and taught me all I know (short of the knowledge that this great forum provides) I am just curious to what this forum says since I have a few days til I head out to the DZ. TL:DR NAV 220 to Sabre 210 opinions? (body weight 145 exit weight roughly 170) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus01 0 #2 October 18, 2011 Here is your answer: "I have talked to my DZO's my instructors and they think its ok once I finish my A-license and have seen me under canopy. " As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Austintxflight 0 #3 October 18, 2011 I made a typographical error, I meant to say, " my DZO's and instructors have all seen my landings and they think it is ok once I finish my A-license (I'm just short a packing class and jump my own pack job) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ljwobker 2 #4 October 18, 2011 Canopy performance can be broadly characterized by the size and the wing planform (a fancy aeronautical term for shape). The size is obvious, but the planform is also important. A Katana 170 and a Spectre 170 are entirely different animals. Personally I think of the original sabre as a relatively tame planform, especially when loaded at less than 1:1. That said: A competent, trusted instructor with lots of experience will be able to provide you with advice that thousands of us who have never seen you fly/land/pack would never be able to. Combining advice from multiple people like this is even better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hackish 8 #5 October 18, 2011 I'm defnitely not saying the following is appropriate for you - only your instructors could answer that, but at some dropzones students of your size are started on 190's and their first rigs usually have something in the 170 size. I've seen some of the 120lb girls flying 150's on their 20th jumps without problems. This is only to say that the sabre 210 you consider is not outside the range of common beginner canopies flown at some DZs. -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #6 October 18, 2011 It sounds like a good choice wingload-wise, you might go smaller than a 210 IMO. The sabre2 is a bit more HP though than your average just-off-student-type-canopy. It is quite suitable for swooping. Over here, you actually need 100 jumps to fly one (at any size), which I think is a few jumps over the top but to give you an indication. The sabre2 will be more reactive to your body position, on opening and in flight. You will need to flare it evenly as well. If it's a sabre 1 it's a good choice for you, if it's a sabre 2 (which is a totally different canopy) you'll need to pay more attention. I'd think something like a sabre 1/spectre 190 or pilot 188 might be a good canopy for you as well. Again, ask your own instructors ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #7 October 18, 2011 Honestly speaking I think if you buy a Sabre 210 you will be unhappy with it very quickly at that wing loading. If you can borrow or rent it that is cool, but a guy your size should be working towards a 190 or a 170 for a first canopy. This smells like a senior jumper on your DZ offloading his used junk. BTW Sabre 210s are notorious for their brutal openings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Austintxflight 0 #8 October 18, 2011 QuoteHonestly speaking I think if you buy a Sabre 210 you will be unhappy with it very quickly at that wing loading. If you can borrow or rent it that is cool, but a guy your size should be working towards a 190 or a 170 for a first canopy. This smells like a senior jumper on your DZ offloading his used junk. BTW Sabre 210s are notorious for their brutal openings. No i'm not anywhere near buying, just testing and using. I don't think ill be ready to buy my own canopy and container until at least 100 jumps, because until around then I have no real personal knowledge on what is what and am relying on others opinions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #9 October 18, 2011 You are well within both PD factory rec's and Brian Germains sizing chart. As long as your instructors are okay with it, I really don't think that it could be called "agressive.""There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Willi91 0 #10 October 20, 2011 My opinion is that you'd be fine under that canopy. If your situation is exactly as you're describing it, I wouldn't worry too much. You just need to be aware that the Nav is more tame than the Sabre, and you will be flying faster, so be careful with your landing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waveoff5500 0 #11 October 21, 2011 not to thread jack, but has anyone checked out the SoFPiDaRF (school of fast progression in downsizing and radical flying) group on facebook? its a pretty funny tongue in cheek swooping page."its just a normal day at the dropzone until its not" 1653 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #12 October 21, 2011 Quotebut a guy your size should be working towards a 190 or a 170 for a first canopy. Why? SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drewcarp 0 #13 October 21, 2011 QuoteHonestly speaking I think if you buy a Sabre 210 you will be unhappy with it very quickly at that wing loading. If you can borrow or rent it that is cool, but a guy your size should be working towards a 190 or a 170 for a first canopy. This smells like a senior jumper on your DZ offloading his used junk. BTW Sabre 210s are notorious for their brutal openings. I hear that a lot too and can't figure out why. What's the big deal about having a canopy that big and easy to land? Is it really that boring to be suspend thousands of feet above the earth by a little more nylon and string when you could have gotten away with a little less? Especially if you are like a lot of skydivers and get uncurrent a lot. I just got rid of my canopy that everyone said would be good because I'm only semi comortable with it in ideal situations, much less landing it off or downwind on a hot day after a 4 months off for winter, or on rears if a break sticks, drop a toggle, .... Granted, I'm conservative because I was lucky to scare myself early on a couple times under canopy and got to learn about crutches for a few weeks and most unfortunantly had 2 of my instructors go in my first season on swoops gone bad, one was only loaded at 1.4. So I guess I saw the bad side of fast canopies earlier than most. I'd rather have my fun in free fall and know that I can likely land my main, downwind, on a roof, after a winter layoff, in a little turbulance, if I drop a toggle on final....without assured injury if (when) something unexpected happens. And when shit does happen you are always better off the more fabric, a partial collapse, collision, lineover, stuck break, blown cell, 2 out, step through, tree landng, hitting wires.....etc etc etc. It's classic 80/20 for me, I can have 80% of the fun of skydiving on a big canopy and only expose myself to 20% of that risk. You could argue the numbers but I think most will get what I'm saying. Most of the risk these days is under canopy and it's really easy to minimise it. If you want to be a swooper, awesome, go for it I'd love to watch. But if you want to be a conservative jumper and improve your odds of walking without titanium when you're old there's no need to jump the smallest canoopy you think you can get away with. The bigger your canopy is when everything goes to shit the slower you hit the ground! But I seem to be alone in this argument and you will get made fun of for having a big canopy so you should probably just get a 170, most people end up fine. No one "needs" to work on downsizing at all if they don't feel the need to land faster. You can jump a 280 forever if you want a little (actually a lot of) extra safety margin which judging by your post that's the type of jumper you are. Why does everyone one insist new jumpers must work down to something that as small as they can possibly get away with? We give ouselves safety margins with every other decision in this sport but no one wants any extra parachute over their head? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trae 1 #14 October 21, 2011 in reply to "The bigger your canopy is when everything goes to shit the slower you hit the ground! But I seem to be alone in this argument and you will get made fun of for having a big canopy " ............................... excellent post mate, you really get it. Any people making fun of you won't be there while you're still having fun well into the future. That make fun of newbies on slow parachutes is a dying crowd. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrjny 0 #15 October 22, 2011 BASE jumpers are the coolest guys around..they jump big, doscile canopies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #16 October 22, 2011 Quotein reply to "The bigger your canopy is when everything goes to shit the slower you hit the ground! But I seem to be alone in this argument and you will get made fun of for having a big canopy " ............................... excellent post mate, you really get it. Any people making fun of you won't be there while you're still having fun well into the future. That make fun of newbies on slow parachutes is a dying crowd. 245 sq. ft. Sharpchuter. Ya gotta love it. Sparky http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp55/mjosparky/Skydiving/SAVE0062.jpg http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp55/mjosparky/Skydiving/Cable0004-2.jpgMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
