Virus warning

[PhillyKev 0]

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I do not buy into the faulty iogic that I must run a
virus scanner that must be updated to protect
against virii it knows nothing of until the time of the
update (the industry standard model, correct?)

Well what kind of virus writer is going to design one that will be caught? They study the virus software and try to find ways around it.

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As to your other scenarios (websites, open ports
etc), what can I say? This machine or its brethern
have been tooling around the internet on and off
by themselves 24/7 for YEARS, I've d/l'd thousands
of files of all types and in that time NADA.

You're very lucky. I've gotten one virus on my home computer. It was an email from a good friend of mine that said..."Hey, how have you been? Check this out, it's hilarious.".....and I opened the attachment. Well, it was a virus that was released that morning and I was checking my email before I went to work. If you're saying you'd never open an attachment that comes from a friend and is worded like they usually do when they email you, that's pretty paranoid. But if you're not paranoid about everything, you're at risk.

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Seriously, if I were of a typical sheeple bent I would
surely be loath to go online sans virus protection of
any kind, what with all manner of IT professionals
telling me of the threat that my (in)action poses,
but given my years of personal experience I can't
cop to being THAT stupid and clueless.

You just haven't gotten bitten yet. Your personal experience has been virus free. I've seen lots of intelligent people get careless or get duped and get infected. If you don't care and are willing to deal with the consequences, fine. But you'll probably spread it to everyone you've ever contacted with your pc before you even know you have it. That's why it is irresponsible.

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Either can these guys

That sight is about hoaxes, which are hoaxes, not viruses. It's not saying that virus protection is a hoax.

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That is a great quote.

Thanks, it's mine.

Just because you're doing something that a lot of other people do as well, doesn't automatically make you a follower. It may just be a good, responsible thing to do, that's why so many people do it. Blindly following is wrong. But you said yourself that a lot of computer professionals have told you that you should have a virus scanner. Isn't it possible they might have a little more knowledge than you on the subject.

It's not sheepleish (whoa, think I coined a new word) to follow good advice.

[sburkart 0]

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Well what kind of virus writer is going to design one that will be caught? They study the virus software and try to find ways around it.

Umm, EXACTLY! What you're not understanding
of my POV seems to be this:

Any virus scanner WILL NOT PROTECT you from
a virus of which it has no knowledge, but people
ACT like they do, specifically, they will open
any damn e-mail attachment that comes their way,
and of course, there's a BLASTER or some other
idiotic worm or virus that makes it's way through
a LAN or WAN. Your scanner did not protect you
from their stupidity, and they did no favors for
a whole slew of others.

We here are all familiar with ALTitude awareness.
Let's view this as ATTitude awareness, okay?
I DO NOT rely on a AAD to save my dumb
ass from my own stupidity, and I DO NOT rely
on virus scanners for much the same reason.

Your view holds me socially irresponsible,
as I am a potential vector. Bull. The vectors
are people who rely on devices to protect
them from their own laziness.

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You're very lucky. I've gotten one virus on my home computer. It was an email from a good friend of mine that said..."Hey, how have you been? Check this out, it's hilarious.".....and I opened the attachment. Well, it was a virus that was released that morning and I was checking my email before I went to work. If you're saying you'd never open an attachment that comes from a friend and is worded like they usually do when they email you, that's pretty paranoid. But if you're not paranoid about everything, you're at risk.

Lucky?

I will refer you to previous posts. My method
is to not open UNCONFIRMED e-mail attachments
from friends or associates. Very easily accomplished;
there is NOTHING I can't wait to open before I
get a confirmation that it is legit. This method
is extremely effective, and it's a damn sight tighter
security measure than relying only on software, and
has been for a long long time. It aint luck.

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You just haven't gotten bitten yet. Your personal experience has been virus free.

The other day I recieved the latest worm four times
in less than an hour. Would any scanner have detected it? I don't know, but DELETE
DELETE
DELETE
DELETE seems to have worked...

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I've seen lots of intelligent people get careless or get duped and get infected. If you don't care and are willing to deal with the consequences, fine.

I too have seen the very same thing: people who
rely on devices or software to do what they could or
should have done (more effectively) themselves.

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If you don't care and are willing to deal with the consequences, fine. But you'll probably spread it to everyone you've ever contacted with your pc before you even know you have it. That's why it is irresponsible.

Those lines (and others) are what lead me to believe
you are still totally missing my point. YOU and others
like you are as irresponsible as you would paint me
to be, you just don't see it.

Go ahead, rely on your virus scanner (the one YOU
KNOW doesn't recognize new viruses) and open
whateverthehell attachments you want, I don't
care, because when your infected system sends
me an e-mail attachment I will delete it.

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That sight is about hoaxes, which are hoaxes, not viruses. It's not saying that virus protection is a hoax.

That site is brilliant, you can't have gone through
the whole thing and missed that.

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...you said yourself that a lot of computer professionals have told you that you should have a virus scanner. Isn't it possible they might have a little more knowledge than you on the subject.

Yes, it IS possible, but it is not likely. There
are many people in IT who know a little about
a lot; many of them suffer, or more accurately,
make others suffer, from their own False Authority
Syndrome. (See that so-called hoax site.)

Some of 'em even think that you can get a virus from reading e-mail! Good times, baby, and if
you don't get the reference I aint at all surprised.

Listen Kev, I know for a fact that there are probably
many things that you could teach me about skydiving
but in my view, on THIS issue, well, you can't win the
arguement.

Reliance on virus scanner = maybe getting NEW virus
Reliance on self = not getting any virus since 1989.

Clearly, I view the latter as the preferable choice,
as do all the people in my address book.

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It's not sheepleish (whoa, think I coined a new word) to follow good advice.

I think you just may have.

[Zenister 0]

just pray you dont attract the attention of a bored hacker then. by posting exactly how vulnerable your computer is on a web forum..yet another brilliant idea from the description of your machine your a perfect target to put any number of 'outdated' viruses on your system, and there by spam your entire address book with viruses they were smart enough to be protected against, some of which will ensure you wont get anyting useful off your harddrive before they are done...

it isnt simply a matter of YOU doing or not doing something stupid to infect yourself, your creating a lovely opportunity for someone else to exploit, the fact that it hasnt been already (or you havent detected it occurring) is simple luck..

but hey you can go have unprotected sex with 'people you trust' too, your still taking stupid risks that are easily prevented by keeping up to date with any number of free virus scanners..

your right in one regard, anti-virus software only protects you to the extent you use it and use it wisely, but i guess the idea of redundant protections means nothing to you...hope you back your data up often at least..

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[sburkart 0]

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just pray you dont attract the attention of a bored hacker then.

I don't do religion. I do know of a lot
so-called professionals who've bought into
the religion of so-called anti-virus schemes.

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by posting exactly how vulnerable your computer is on a web forum..yet another brilliant idea from the description of your machine your a perfect target to put any number of 'outdated' viruses on your system, and there by spam your entire address book with viruses they were smart enough to be protected against, some of which will ensure you wont get anyting useful off your harddrive before they are done...

Care to be more specific? Sounds like a lot
of hokum to me. I've got gigs of intellectual
property on this machine and I aint a bit worried.

I don't have a dishonest bone in me, and no
amount of pride would lead me to lie to you:
if I get socked or blindsided by something in the
future that causes me anywhere near the kinds
of problems you think I'm inviting myself you'll
read it here first.

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it isnt simply a matter of YOU doing or not doing something stupid to infect yourself, your creating a lovely opportunity for someone else to exploit, the fact that it hasnt been already (or you havent detected it occurring) is simple luck..

There is no such thing as luck in these matters.
My machines have had the same "vulnerabilities"
as any one elses, technically, any avoidance
has been due to intelligent useage, period.

Admit it: if you IT guys would do more to educate
users you wouldn't have nearly the number of
problems (infections) as you do. I guess there's
a certain logic to it, but I'd fire your ass in a minute
if you didn't do (or insist on having done) everything
in your power to protect MY company.

But then again, I wouldn't blindly leave security
issues such as these solely to IT guys...

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but hey you can go have unprotected sex with 'people you trust' too, your still taking stupid risks that are easily prevented by keeping up to date with any number of free virus scanners..

Well, if you'd gone to my sig link you'd see
THOSE actions aint likely on MY part.

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your right in one regard, anti-virus software only protects you to the extent you use it and use it wisely, but i guess the idea of redundant protections means nothing to you...hope you back your data up often at least.

You guys have got game when it comes to quotes.
Try this:

DO NOT OPEN UN-CONFIRMED E-MAIL ATTACHMENTS!!!

Just once, broadcast THAT message across your network, I dare you.

P.S. If you have read this P.S. your PC
is now infected! Booga booga booga! LOL!

[Zenister 0]

ok how about you open a confirmed email attachement only to find out its not what you thought it was??

think it doesnt happen? attachments are easy to replace..

we do educate users, they are simply to lazy to follow the instructions, of course in the military you can be charged for such negligence, so i dont often have that problem with my users..

you might not believe it, but it IS luck if your machine hasnt been noticed by a malevolent hacker...and you have no way to control that at all, all you can do is make it harder to exploit.

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[sburkart 0]

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ok how about you open a confirmed email attachement only to find out its not what you thought it was??

Wow, you mean somebody spoofs a message
from a trusted source and then that source
actually confirms the message and attachment?

That would be plain un-lucky- and a bit
of a stretch- but I think you know that.

Note: My techniques have not failed me once
since before most of you guys knew what the
internet was.

Now please explain to me how my system would
be afforded more protection for having
used a virus scanner that cannot detect the
same?

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we do educate users, they are simply to lazy to follow the instructions, of course in the military you can be charged for such negligence, so i dont often have that problem with my users..

As DOD computers are classified as weapons
systems, I don't expect that you have many
issues such as these. I would hope not anyway.

Now go to your bosses and ask them why
they don't allow foreign nationals routine
access to DOD desktops, but they do
allow code written by those same potential
evil doers to run on those same machines?

Bill Gates is handing over the code to his
OS to the feds, I'll give you a hundred dollars
for every virus-scanner firm that has offered to
do the same.

BTW, a salute to you in these times; I am ex-USAF, Langley AFB TAC HQ in another life.
Supply squadron, of course. LOL!

[sburkart 0]

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edit to add: Avast Virus Scanner - It's priced for the skydiver budget!

I have been mistaken; that is a most excellent
link you gave us there, W.

As far as I know, this is the first firm in the biz to
offer consumers SOME of the kind of protections the
virus-scanner industry have been using to protect
temselves all along.

Again, as far as I know, the following is un-precedented in a consumer offering (and a free
one at that!)

From the Avast site product description:

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New feature of version 4 is heuristic analysis of e-mail scanners. It is extremely useful in protecting against new, unknown viruses and worms that are not possible to detect by the usual means. The heuristic module performs a thorough investigation of every e-mail message and watches for suspicious signs that might announce virus presence. When the number of those signs exceeds the user-defined level, the message is considered dangerous and the user is warned.

That bit alone, and the fact that the home version
IS free, updates included, is enough to make me
think Avast won't be around for long before one
of the biggies comes along and swallows it whole.
We'll see.

Anyway, thanks for the link. I'm gonna try it out
and if it does its thing and doesn't unduly bog down
XP it'll be a keeper. It seems to be the only way I'll
lose the "socially irresponsible" tag.

[WFFC 1]

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I'm gonna try it out and if it does its thing and doesn't unduly bog down XP it'll be a keeper. It seems to be the only way I'll lose the "socially irresponsible" tag.

Only recommendation, disable the VRDB feature. right click the icon in the system tray, select VRDB, select disable VRDB generation. Do a little reading on it and VRDB will be 'splained...enjoy~~~

[Squeak 17]

how can I stopp the So big thing from getting into my inbox, I have PC cillan whuch Identifes it but I stll get shitload of emails clogging up my inbox

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[PhillyKev 0]

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Wow, you mean somebody spoofs a message
from a trusted source and then that source
actually confirms the message and attachment?

That would be plain un-lucky- and a bit
of a stretch- but I think you know that.

No, but someone else who has been infected, a friend of yours, sends you an attachment that is infected, but it has a funny picture. You say, "Hey, what's this attachment." They say, "It's a funny picture."

You open it and laugh.

[sburkart 0]

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No, but someone else who has been infected, a friend of yours, sends you an attachment that is infected, but it has a funny picture. You say, "Hey, what's this attachment." They say, "It's a funny picture."

Got it. Dig this: I got put on the defensive a bit
in this thread (for sure "socially irresponsible" hit a nerve), and I've been called lucky. In retrospect, I
have to admit that I have been lucky that my (in)actions didn't cause me to be socially irresponsible..

Your scenario above is plausible. The fact that it
(or something like it) never happened in 14 years
is irrelevant, though it is remarkable.

I've had a number of other plausible scenarios
brought to my attention, the worst case being a
really rude bug of some years ago that fatally attacked BIOS. Most of it would not have been prevented solely by deleting e-mails.

WFFC suggested Avast, and I d/l'd and ran it last
night. As I've been lucky and diligent, the initial
scan returned zero infected files. It hasn't done
any of the crazy shit that IT pros at Einstein warned
me occurs with McAfee or Norton, but I had a couple
interupted d/l's today that I don't know the cause
of so that will bear watching.

What is left is to offer a sincere apology, and to try
to make it up to you guys in some small way.
Let me see.... what could I do.... what I could I say...

Got it!

(Ahem) Gee guys, I'm sorry, this is the FIRST time
anything like this has ever happened to me!