AggieDave 6 #51 September 9, 2003 QuoteWe can still synthesize B-12 but poorly; most people get most of their B-12 from meat (or a supplement.) Vegetarians have to be sure to include ebough B-12 in their diets. What if I just prefer a step through harness? Ok, ok, ok, I know...stupid joke.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #52 September 9, 2003 QuoteEating meat as we do today, by ordering a Big Mac at McDonald's, That's not my idea of eating meat either. If you ever make it to Texas and stop for a bit, I'll show you what a Texan armed with a large grill and some big pieces of beef can do (and armed with beer). Ok, now that I'm thinking about thickly cut pieces of Black Angus, I'm getting very hungry and am now looking very forward to breakfast.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueEyedMonster 0 #53 September 9, 2003 hmmm I had cheese sticks and a steak salad for dinner. Whats that make me? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #54 September 9, 2003 Quotehmmm I had cheese sticks and a steak salad for dinner. Whats that make me? Sounds a lot like it makes you a college student, if you ask me...--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueEyedMonster 0 #55 September 9, 2003 QuoteQuotehmmm I had cheese sticks and a steak salad for dinner. Whats that make me? Sounds a lot like it makes you a college student, if you ask me... I wish I was that young.... Actually I'm a 3rd shift techie ho accross the street from Applebee's. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #56 September 9, 2003 College student/techie, is there actually a difference in the diet? I've been both, and I say no.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #57 September 9, 2003 I personally see no reason whatsoever to revert to being an herbivore. Our species is an omnivorous species that has attained the status of being part of the top of the food chain. Hunter or hunted its a choice that most animals in nature have VERY little control over. Nature is not kind.. and never has been.No matter how much some would like to argue the point.. we STILL are a part of nature and as such can easily be reduced in numbers by many factors, Not the least of which is starvation, disease, or natural disasters. I like keeping my options open. Plants, animals.. its all good if prepared properly. I will have one large slab of dead animal please... properly singed and seasoned Amazon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueEyedMonster 0 #58 September 9, 2003 QuoteCollege student/techie, is there actually a difference in the diet? I've been both, and I say no. I had a meal plan in college. I ate really well all the time. But that was just a year. NOW, I live on Little Debbie Swiss Snack Cakes, M&M's, Applebee's and Subway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpy 0 #59 September 9, 2003 Ahhh nope... not a vego :p Much to the dismay of my vego friends.. especially when i order a meatlovers pizza cos i can't find any food in there kitchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shunkka 0 #60 September 9, 2003 come on the porky pig meat is the best we can eat ------------------------- "jump, have fun, pull" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueEyedMonster 0 #61 September 9, 2003 Quotecome on the porky pig meat is the best we can eat You are gonna go to hell... The bible says pork is a no no Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyAnt 0 #62 September 9, 2003 If I met a Skydiving vegetarian helicopter pilot that was willing to prepare 4 meals a day for me I would convert in a second! I go off meat for at least two weeks straight every year to ah... 'clean the pipes' so to speak. The biggest hassle I find is coming up with a variety of inexpensive great tasting meals that don't take hours to make. I have lots of minor allergies, many of which I think are caused by animal fat so it pays for me to cut down in that sense, but I love meat and dairy which makes it a little harder as well as the fact that I lift weights. All that aside my biggest concern is the amount of chemicals and hormones in meat and poultry. Which leaves fish. Mmmm well that sounds great but since the introduction of drift netting (Tunafish anyone?) stocks have dwindled mainly due to the exorbitant level of by-catch. Also I must say I don't really buy the argument about us being meat eaters by nature. Remember early man had to expend a large number of calories cutting and killing the SOB whatever it was. I think in the western world we do eat too much meat. Go to the doctor and get your blood tested for Uric Acid levels (thats piss BTW) you may well be horrified. The best compromise is a moderate amount of all foods. For most people this would include one small serving of animal flesh once a day maybe more if you require large amounts of protein in your diet. "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke (1729-1797) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D22369 0 #63 September 9, 2003 If god didnt want you to eat animals, he wouldnt have made them taste so good!!! In the animal kingdom a vegitarian is known as "food".... RoyThey say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhoenixFire 0 #64 September 9, 2003 I am a Vegi What ppl should look at when they say that men are meant to eat meat because it provides all the nutrients etc ... is that in todays modern age; cows, pigs, sheep etc are all fed genetically altered food and thus the meat that you eat is actually full of hormones, chemicals and genetic "crap". yes - certain fruits and veg are also genetically modified - but i don't eat that anyways. I am not saying that ppl shouldn't eat meat - but nutrionally you are probally not getting from it what u thought u where and deffinatley not what you got 50 years ago. Man was not meant to be exclusivley meat eaters as years and years of archeology have shown and in fact we where considered food by many wild animals ( same genre as a baboon). There are some brilliant books about the effects that genetically altered food has on children across the world and also on the increase in diseases etc ... if you want a list for some really interresting reading - let me know.Peace Be Da Journey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueEyedMonster 0 #65 September 9, 2003 QuoteI am a Vegi What ppl should look at when they say that men are meant to eat meat because it provides all the nutrients etc ... is that in todays modern age; cows, pigs, sheep etc are all fed genetically altered food and thus the meat that you eat is actually full of hormones, chemicals and genetic "crap"...//...but nutrionally you are probally not getting from it what u thought u where and deffinatley not what you got 50 years ago. Boy have you got that backwards. Today's Hybrids and genetically modified feed grains are not only modified/bred to be pest resistant, but also to be more nutritious. They have more vitamins and nutrients. Healthier cows, make more meat and produce more milk. Hormones? The hormone BGH and the others used are already naturally occurring hormones, just more is given to produce a desired result. Its no different than birth control in women. Why don't I see PETA protesting the pill. In general, because of the better crops, and healthier animals the food we eat is much more nutritious. If you don't believe me, Go to an Amish farm and take a look at the animals. There's a big difference. So actually, 50 years ago, what you got was much LESS than what you get today. Research before you post. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhoenixFire 0 #66 September 9, 2003 Okay here are some snippets from articles --- 1. The report, called Farm Policies and Our Food: The Need for Change, says the use of antibiotics on farms, to speed up growth and prevent infections among animals bred intensively, could encourage the development of resistant bacteria which cause both animal and human illnesses. There is also concern about antibiotic residues left behind in meat and consumed by people. Pesticides, which can impair the human immune system and lower resistance to cancer, are increasingly being found deeper inside fruit and vegetables rather than just on the skin. url as follows: news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/64458.stm 2. Technology has resulted in the change of the nutrition of meat. In the past, cattle herds grazed in open fields of natural grass and chickens were allowed to run free. Nowadays, these fields have all disappeared and replaced with industrial buildings. Animals are now under the care of professional farmers who breed and feed them for commercial purposes only. In order to maximize efficiency, most modern farms confine their animals in small areas so that the farmers can deliver their food and remove their waste with minimal effort. Such confinement systems are thought to minimize the cost of cattle and chicken and make the business more efficient and profitable. Instead of allowing animals to roam freely in green pastures, they are confined so that the pastures can be used to plant and harvest crops. Maximum efficiency is such a priority that even livestock feed has been designed to reduce costs and to make animals grow fatter faster. It is important to note that humans will in turn consume both nutrients and toxins consumed by animals. Url as follows: http://www.drlam.com/A3R_brief_in_doc_format/2002-No2-BeefChickenorFish.cfm Yes i know that they genetically alter fruit as well ... and I don't eat genetically altered food. But read the articles esp the 2nd article and tell me if you still disagree that meat is not of a poorer standard than 50 years agoPeace Be Da Journey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhoenixFire 0 #67 September 9, 2003 By the way I am not trying to sound Righteous - I am just pointing out some facts. If ppl want to eat meat that is great - "u like the taste" but I have looked into the treatment of animals and read a fair amount about the treatment of animals food etc ... ( which is part of the reason I am a vegi anyways)Peace Be Da Journey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #68 September 9, 2003 QuoteWhy don't I see PETA protesting the pill. Hey has anyone seen the new link to the OLD PETA site... the one that the current PETA sued.... http://www.mtd.com/tasty/ Then there is always http://petasucks.cc/ People Eating Tasty Animals I love animals.. and believe that they should be treated humanely by humans under all circumstances..... BUT extremism on any front gets me twitchy. I am not a vegan.. and vegans are killing poor helpless plants. Oh the shame... Amazon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueEyedMonster 0 #69 September 9, 2003 There is a big difference between not getting nutrients and getting anti-biotic residue. Your first post argued that you did not get the nutrients... and after I contradicted that your second post stated:QuoteIt is important to note that humans will in turn consume both nutrients and toxins consumed by animals OOPS The nutrients are there now huh? Your first post stated the meat contained extra "chemicals." Notice, I never disagreed with that. But, you have less to worry about with those chemicals than you do about driving your car or drinking alcohol. Therefore, I still disagree. Meat IS of better quality today than it ever was. And BTW In the US beef cattle raised for meat are still grazed in pastures. The cows that are kept contained are the ones that are milking. Fact of the matter is, if it was not for modern farming methods, there would be a lot more starving people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhoenixFire 0 #70 September 9, 2003 U know what this is sort of a dead ended conversation, we can argue for ever about the pros and cons and I don't think either of us will agree with one another. I am not gonna force ppl to stop eating meat ( it is not my place or purpose anyways) ( you cant force ppl to stop drinking and driving and that is clearly more dangerous) I just find it very interresting that if you look at the general health of the world population that it has detteriated ( argument is ppl live for longer - that i agrree with) but esp amongst children there is a lot more diseases that where associated with ppl of an older age group until recently. as many articles as I find proving that meat is bad - u will find proving it is good ( esp articles funded by "aboutours" etc ) Having said above I think we are now beating a dead horse so enjoy your "burger" I am having "carrots for lunch today"Peace Be Da Journey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueEyedMonster 0 #71 September 9, 2003 But I wanted to EAT the dead horse! Quoteamongst children there is a lot more diseases that where associated with ppl of an older age group until recently. Easy to explain: Better detection methods, spot more sooner. The big one, diabetes is from too many carbos/sugars --yeah that plant stuff. Don't forget evolution's roll. Now that kids live with diseases, they can pass them on to their kids. Viruses, Bacteria, and carriers (such as mosquetos and ticks) have much shorter lives and evolve much faster than we do. So of course the evil critters are gaining ground. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pa2themd 0 #72 September 9, 2003 I was a vegetarian for about 8 years, I never had the time to cook well balanced meals and I ended up always being sick and anemic. Now I love my steak, medium rare, with fresh chillies, and alot of veggies! While it is fantastic being a veggie, you need to ensure that you eat the correct foods in the correct quantities. There also seems to be a group of young girls who believe if they cut out meat, they will lose weight! So not true! I have a friend who is a vegetarian, she says she isn't a veggie because she loves animals, but because she hates plants "Most of us can read the writing on the wall; we just assume it's addressed to someone else!" Ivern Ball Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyAnt 0 #73 September 9, 2003 "The hormone BGH and the others used are already naturally occurring hormones, just more is given to produce a desired result. Its no different than birth control in women. Why don't I see PETA protesting the pill." -------------------------------------------------------- Read what you just said. I do not think that is a very good example. "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke (1729-1797) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #74 September 9, 2003 Well, to those who are arguing against my points, I was not trying to say that we are carnivores, rather omnivores. NOT herbivores. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,147 #75 September 9, 2003 QuoteWell, to those who are arguing against my points, I was not trying to say that we are carnivores, rather omnivores. NOT herbivores And I think that we are mainly herbivores who just recently discovered meat and are slowly turning into omnivores. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
