GLIDEANGLE 1 #1 June 30, 2011 According to the FAA search engine here: http://av-info.faa.gov/designeeSearch.asp?SrchBy=LOC There are only 25 states with Designated Parachute Rigger Examiners! There is a large contiguous band of states without DPREs from North Dakota south to Texas and then east to Alabama & Tennessee. Also surprising is that New York has no DPRE. Which state has the most? ...... Montana with SIX. (My guess is that this is related to the smoke jumper activity there.) It seems really odd that New York with 13 USPA Group member DZs and Texas with 9 USPA Group member DZs both lack any DPREs. Living in Texas, it looks like the three closest DPREs are two in Missouri and one in New Mexico. The driving distances range from 460-625 miles for me. I think that the FAA could do a better job of recruiting DPREs to provide coverage in areas with significant jumping activity.The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiggerLee 61 #2 June 30, 2011 Check with skydive dallas. A guy there was talking about getting his DPRE. I don't know what the statos of that. It might just be that the records are not up dated. Just for shits and grens call up the FSDO. They are required to provide you with some one to adminester the test. I've never actually herd of it being done and it will probable be like pulling teeth but the rule is still there. If nothing else force them to do paper work on it. Maybe you can ster up enough shit to get some one apointed. LeeLee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #3 June 30, 2011 Living in TN, I drove up to Ohio to do my test. (I think there MAY have been one in KY, but I had already talked to the one in OH)"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerpaul 1 #4 June 30, 2011 QuoteI think that the FAA could do a better job of recruiting DPREs to provide coverage in areas with significant jumping activity. I suspect that the FAA does not, in fact, recruit them, but accepts applications from those willing to apply. Councilman24 (Terry Urban) is a DPRE. Terry, do you know? Does the FAA recruit DPREs? Or do they just take the applicants that present themselves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark 102 #5 June 30, 2011 QuoteI think that the FAA could do a better job of recruiting DPREs to provide coverage in areas with significant jumping activity. A FSDO might ask a local master rigger if he or she would like a DPRE appointment, but they don't have much to offer as a recruiting incentive. To apply for a DPRE appointment, you have to be an experienced master rigger with sufficient materials and equipment to give a master rigger exam. Once you have an appointment, you have to go to Oklahoma City for a 5-day course for new examiners. IIRC, the FAA charges $300 for the course, and you pay for your own travel expenses. After that, you get to develop oral questions and practical projects. This is a non-trivial task. Then the questions and projects have to be approved by the supervising FSDO. Every two years you get to travel at your own expense to a recurrency course the FAA charges money for. Fortunately, the FAA usually schedules a course at the same time and place as the PIA Symposium. In exchange for your trouble, you get to charge a "reasonable fee" for an exam, which in practice turns out to be about what you'd make if you spent your time rigging and not examining. (The exceptions are DPREs who run courses and get a little benefit from economies of scale.) A handful of DPREs account for the lion's share of exams; most DPREs do only a few tests a year. The rules for DPREs are basically the same as for Designated Mechanic Examiners, and there are a variety of reasons the FAA is unlikely to change them to make it easier for us. Most riggers are not legally current anyway. I'm not sure that having more DPREs so we can have more uncurrent riggers is a good idea. Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #6 June 30, 2011 The FAA does not recruit DPRE's. And even if a Master Rigger in a particular area wants to become a DPRE that doesn't mean they can. Here is a brief description of the process. Here are the qualifications required. DPRE - Designated Parachute Rigger Examiner General Qualifications The applicant must: 1. Have held a valid master parachute rigger certificate for 2 years. 2. Have been actively exercising the privileges of a valid master parachute rigger certificate for 2 years immediately prior to designation. 3. Be at least 23 years of age. 4. Show evidence of a high level of knowledge in the subject areas required for the parachute rigger certification. 5. Have a good record as a parachute rigger, as a person engaged in the industry and community with a reputation for honesty and dependability. 6. Have a fixed base of operation adequately equipped to exercise the authority of the designation. Someone desiring to be considered as a DPRE fills out form 8110-28. http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/form/faa8110-28.pdf This form is sent to the FAA National Examiner Board in Oklahoma City. The Board decides if you meet the requirements and are eligible to become an examiner. They only meet a few times a year. If you are determined to meet the requirements a DPRE candidate used to be required to take a written exam. That was eliminated a couple of years ago. Now you go directly into a pool of candidates that a FSDO can consider. At that point it is up to the local FSDO to decide if they NEED a DPRE and have the resources to manage a DPRE. If they don't currently have a DPRE they will likely not have seen very many applications to become riggers and will have seen no demand for the service of a DPRE. All the candidates that go to a course like the USAPR or Dave DeWolf's never interact with their local FSDO so the local FSDO may not see any rigger candidate activity and not see the need for a DPRE. In my case discussions with the local FSDO took about 2 years. But I didn't push very hard and they had a change in manager. Once a FSDO determines the need and ability to manage a DPRE and selects a candidate that candidate must attend an 3 day initial training seminar in Oklahoma City at their own expense. This is held 3 or 4 times a year. After succesfully completing the seminar there is a lot of preparation yet to do. Each DPRE writes their own oral and practical tests. These must be submitted to the FAA before they can be used. This isn't a subset of the parachute rigger Practical Test Standard. This must be an all inclusive set of oral questions and skill tests for each area and task in the PTS. In addition the DPRE must have a fixed base of operations and the appropriate facilities and equipment to administer the tests. Once all of this is ready a Master Rigger can be designated as a DPRE. Then all of the paper works starts. And the designee must attend a renewal training seminar every two years. From the time I first contacted my FAA office to the time I was designated was about 3 years. Part of this was the fact they had never had a DPRE. They had to agree there was a need and to decide they had the ability to manage one. Some of this time was also my preparation for the written test. Between the time I received my letter from the National Examiner Board and I felt ready to take the Examiner written test they eliminated it. For an office that is used to having a DPRE it might take about a year between application, approval, seminar, preparation, and designation. Any rigger can train another rigger. A DPRE is only needed to to administer the tests. So it's not a step that a lot of Master Riggers want to take. Also it means the FAA can and will inspect your facilities. There are many people not willing to invite the FAA into their business. So, there aren't many DPRE's. There are only 42 DPRE's. Approximately 11 of those are associated with smoke jumper bases. They are supposed to make themselves available to anyone but the practical matter may be their availability may be limited. It looks like a bunch of the smoke jumper DPRE's have not renewed their designation in the last few years. There used to about as many or more in Alaska as in Montana.With gas prices the way they are you may want to fly. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #7 June 30, 2011 Mark wrote his post as I wrote mine. But mine is longer.And as I say above you may have to convince a FSDO to designate a DPRE. And they may choose not to. They don't necessarily appoint you even if you qualify and WANT to become a DPRE. They have to determine the need AND their ability to manage. With government cutbacks that's not a trivial matter. As to recruit? As Mark says maybe on occasion but I can't tell you anyone that has been recruited versus self motivated. I also haven't heard of anyone absolutely told no but I did need to explain to my FSDO that demand would never preceed availability. That only after a DPRE was in place would they see any demand in the way of 8610-2 rigger applications to approve. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,050 #8 June 30, 2011 Hi Terry, QuoteThe FAA does not recruit DPRE's. We may be splitting words but ~20 yrs my local FSDO/FAA rigger asked/tried to 'recruit' me to become a DPRE because he simply did not want to be burdened with it anymore. Mark & you have explained the process very well. And that cost & process, along with the on-going paperwork, is why I turned the FAA down. I applaud those who are active DPRE's, JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #9 June 30, 2011 In 1985 I was tested by a FAA inspector. But I don't know that any inspectors now test. At the time you were recruited they may have been tryng to get rid of doing it. My inspector tested me for my lap but there was no for them to refer me to.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #10 July 1, 2011 Quote The FAA does not recruit DPRE's. I will say I was "pointed" in the direction of a DPRE by the FAA. This went on for about 7 years before I actually went to OKC for the Inital DPRE Seminar and immediately appointed into a designation thereafter. Terry, One part of the process that both you and Mark stated is incorrect. Minute though.... You go to OKC for the Inital Seminar after the NEB accepts your application, not after the appointment by the local FSDO. The FSDO can only offically appoint individuals that are already on the quailified list that basically states that they have a valid and current application.They also have to maintain currency with their training to be eligible for a DPRE designation. BS, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #11 July 2, 2011 What I said is the local FSDO selects a candidate from those added to the qualified list by the NEB. That's not "appointment" but it is selection. From form 8110-28.. "In accordance with candidates’ indicated geographic availability, qualifications, and ranking within the pool, the NEB forwards candidate applications to each FSDO requesting a new designee." I certainly wasn't going to go to OK City unless I was sure the FSDO was going to appoint me. And I checked several times up until I got on the plane. Yes, the final 'appointment' comes with the letter of authorization, which in my FSDO has to be renewed EVERY year. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #12 July 3, 2011 I know of 3 DPRE's in Texas. One each in Alvord, Dallas and Odessa, Texas. Google: 'Don Mayer's Parachute Shop' On the left side of the page (listings in red) click on 'Becoming a parachute rigger', scroll-down on that page and click on 'List of DPRE's'. Scroll-down through the pages till you come to DPRE's. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #13 July 4, 2011 Don's list is dated 2004. The current list on the FAA website shows 42 DPRE's and none in TX. The TX guys must not have renewed. The FAA search is here http://av-info.faa.gov/designeeSearch.asp?SrchBy=LOCI'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #14 July 4, 2011 Quote What I said is the local FSDO selects a candidate from those added to the qualified list by the NEB. That's not "appointment" but it is selection. Roger that, but I was going from this statement, " Once a FSDO determines the need and ability to manage a DPRE and selects a candidate that candidate must attend an 3 day initial training seminar in Oklahoma City at their own expense." I just want to make sure everyone understands the diffence in "selection" and "designation". The NEB selects candidates that meet the standards for eligibilty after the individual submits the application form. the FSDO has nothing to do with this process officially. The local FSDO designates the individual into a DPRE role. The FSDO's offical designation process begans after the Inital Seminar in OKC. In other words, someone can fill out an application to the NEB, have it accepted, go to OKC for the Initial Seminar, without ever talking to a FSDO. I know of two instances where the individual completed the application, was selected by the NEB as eligibile, went to OKC for the Inital Seminar, and then asked for a designation at a local FSDO. In these two cases, "a need" for a DPRE was determined well after the individual was qualified by the above actions and several intro letters to the FSDO Manager. BS, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #15 July 4, 2011 QuoteDon's list is dated 2004. The current list on the FAA website shows 42 DPRE's and none in TX. The TX guys must not have renewed. The FAA search is here http://av-info.faa.gov/designeeSearch.asp?SrchBy=LOC Thank you, for clarifying things. Thanks also, for the site. I appreciate it. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
