Sick. Just Sick.

[BikerBabe 0]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/11/05/green.river.killings/index.html

He's so nonchalant about it, too

Ugh.

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[CrazyIvan 0]

Hey...no problem, they were ALL WOMEN

Sorry.

__________________________________________
Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[BikerBabe 0]

yeah, those prostitutes, they don't really matter, right?

We need a barfy smiley.

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[hooked 0]

Everyone in this area, is just glad he has finally been caught. I agree, it is just sick. He is so nonchalant about it and some of his 'stories' are even sicker. This has taken a very long time to find this murderer, the thing is, he was a suspect early on but they just didn't have the evidence against him.

J

--------------------------------------
Sometimes we're just being Humans.....But we're always Human Beings.

[skydyvr 0]

Quote

Ugh.

Its not right having to share our lovely planet with crap like that.

. . =(_8^(1)

[shawnstarr 0]

i grew up in seattle. we would always tease eachother that the green river killer was going to get you! how long ago was he caught?

------------------------------------------------
'I refuse to tiptoe quitely through life
only to arrive safely at death' Anon

[Canuck278 0]

We just had some twisted freak killing prstitutes up here in bc too....he owned a pig farm....nuff said.

Steve
Therapy is expensive, popping bubble wrap is cheap.

[Michele 1]

The sad part in this whole thing is that he pled guilty to 48 murders...and walked into prision - but will not get the death penalty.

48 women dead, and this sonofabitch gets to life the rest of his natural life in prision without parole...

Thief of 48 lives gets to keep his.

I understand why it was done, this plea...but I cannot help but think this guy got the better end of the deal.

Andi, I do believe Crazy Ivan was joking - unfortunately it was in really bad taste, but I think it was a joke nonetheless.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[CrazyIvan 0]

Quote

Andi, I do believe Crazy Ivan was joking - unfortunately it was in really bad taste, but I think it was a joke nonetheless.

Yes, I was joking, and indeed, very bad taste, sorry about that.

__________________________________________
Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Hey...no problem, they were ALL WOMEN

Hey .. they were all sexworkers and going to hell anyway... I guess he just "saved" good men from falling into sin with them.

Those women are usually expendable.... especially in our society... disposable.. I am really amazed they EVER even bothered to go after the guy.. most places don't even bother. He must have snatched and killed someone that they cared about.

I guess Brother Swaggert was just saving them.

[kai2k1 0]

no shit, i cant believe that he plea bargained for life

There's no truer sense of flying than sky diving," Scott Cowan

[McDuck 0]

I remember when I lived in Spokane, before they caught Yates, everyone thought the two were linked.

I'm guessing that, as far as prison politics go, he won't last long in a place where cigarettes can buy your life...or a contract on it.

Kevin - Sonic Beef #5 - OrFun #28
"I never take myself too seriously, 'cuz everybody know fat birds don't fly." - FLC
Online communities: proof that people never mature much past high school.

[Lolie 0]

I remember when he was caught and I found out that I lived within walking distance of his home for seven years. Creepy.

-Miranda
you shall above all things be glad and young / For if you're young,whatever life you wear
it will become you;and if you are glad / whatever's living will yourself become.

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

The sad part in this whole thing is that he pled guilty to 48 murders...and walked into prision - but will not get the death penalty.

He chose prostitutes and runaways as targets of opportunity. People who may not be reported as missing.

In Tampa, we had a serial killer who chose prostitutes because they would get in the car easily. Also, if they were reported missing, the response was generally "She probably just moved on... in Miami or something..."

Some mental health experts regard serial killers as lab rats. Dissected, they can tell us how to prevent building more of them. They spend 30 years in prison being examined for clues.

Personally, I'd like to fry them all. I like to think that there would be lives saved by the lab rat approach. That would make it worth it and make me set aside my personal preferences.

[slug 1]

When we first moved to Seattle in 85 we were walking along the Green River and wondered....

Then we used to walk our hounds south of the Airport and wondered.....

Folks would ask us if were were concerned about living in the green river murder's stomping ground? Nope wife isn't a prostitute.

A month ago our Van died and we hitched a ride home with a guy who told us (after we got in his car) that he and his wife used to work with Mr Ridgeway at the Kenworth truck factory.

The guy told us the folks at work suspected Mr Ridgeway was the bad dude but kept on working with him until they were laid off.

R.I.P.

[CrazyThomas 0]

what about accomplishment? [sick side speaking] isn't it amazing how much he got away with? BEFORE he got caught? [/sick side speaking]

Seriously though, this was more planned and better executed (no pun intended) than the 9/11 plot.
And yes, I am fully aware this will piss people off. BUT what if everyone does not share the same happy feely touchy caring "LOVE LIFE" feelings that most people do?
It's not like he skinned them and made them into lamp shades (Edward Gien), or dissolved their bodies in sulfuric acid (Jeffrey Dahmer).
And like Ivan said, they WERE all PRO's. so society dissolves it's own misfits, right?

Flame away.........
Thomas

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

And like Ivan said, they WERE all PRO's. so society dissolves it's own misfits, right?

Regardless of what anyone said, they weren't all prostitutes. Some were runaway teenage kids. Some were just kids, period. One was just a 16 yo girl with a loving family and she was in the wrong place one day.

If they were all prostitutes? This society places them as misfits because of the prominence of religion. Other countries don't make them social pariahs.

Quote

And yes, I am fully aware this will piss people off.

However, if being a social misfit is a capital crime for you, don't you think that you should be less anti-social? You might be next on the approved list.

[Michele 1]

You're right, Bill. Oftentimes, serial killers will choose targets of opportunity and they will include prostitutes, run aways and homeless folk. Most people don't know they are missing to report them, and, like you said, they won't get any attention until bodies start turning up, and only then if several or more in the same area, with the same victimology, etc. Only then will they realize they have a repeat/serial killer in their midst.

As to them being lab rats, there are things we can learn from them, no doubt. But "three hots and a cot" for the rest of his natural life just seems wrong. I understand why the prosecutor did it - there is now "closure" for 41 additional families (he was only charged originally with 7 aggravated murder/death penalty attached), and a trial would be a gamble, no matter how tight the evidence (remember OJ?). But still, something therein rankles me no end.

I have recently heard that the plea bargain arranged and agreed to encompasses only the area/county (I think it's that narrow) he was charged in. Therefore, if a body turns up and can be linked to him, he may still receive the death penalty for that one if charged in another county or state. OTOH, the pecking order may establish itself in jail, ala Dahmer, and he will die the way he killed - brutally.

I still think he, along with Karla Homoulka (another case, Canadian), got the sweetheart deals of the century. Sometimes, you gotta wonder about karma....

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Guest]

The thing that really bothers me is wondering how many more psychos like him are still out there...

mh

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[CrazyThomas 0]

Quote

Quote

And yes, I am fully aware this will piss people off.

However, if being a social misfit is a capital crime for you, don't you think that you should be less anti-social? You might be next on the approved list.

shit, if I was worried about the approved list, I wouldn't talk so much.
Would I be so stupid to get in a vehicle with a stranger? Yes, and if shit came to me because of that, if would be my own damn fault.
How were they killed? Knives? Fuck it, let's sue the Knife Manufacturers. Guns? Damn, we better sue the gun manufacturers.
Seriously....y'all missing a BIG point here. The victims parents should be able to sue somebody and MAKE SOME MONEY off this deal. After all, their kids lives WERE worth something, even if they were PRO's, right?
[sarcasitc asshole] Let's get a lawsuit going. I should get some money JUST FOR HAVING TO READ ABOUT THIS. Who can I sue? The King county papers? Maybe the people who manufactured the weapons of these murders? What about K-Mart and Wal-Mart that sold these knives to this person?
And he had to have some kind of vehicle. Let's sue the makers of the vehicle, for providing him with "Modus Opporendi" or whatever it is called "ability to commit". [/sarcastic asshole]
Shit, we gotta be able to blame someone else for this.........BLAME CANADA!

Thomas

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

The thing that really bothers me is wondering how many more psychos like him are still out there...

mh

I have heard the FBI quoted as estimating the range of 35-60.

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

OTOH, the pecking order may establish itself in jail, ala Dahmer, and he will die the way he killed - brutally.

I still think he, along with Karla Homoulka (another case, Canadian), got the sweetheart deals of the century. Sometimes, you gotta wonder about karma....

Jail has an order. Rules among the inmates too. Behavioral psychologists that separate serial killers into two groups, ordered and disordered. "Ordered" killers carry tools, plan crimes and escape routes. They function in society without becoming noticed. e.g. Ted Bundy. They function o.k. in prison.

"Disordered" killers become more and more deranged as their mental state degrades. They become more disheveled in appearance and can't function. These don't last long in prison.

Karla Homoulka was Canadian. The Canadian govt did a study and discovered that it costs $2 million to try a death penalty case and fight the resulting appeals. It only costs $500 thousand to warehouse them for life. The decision to quit using the death penalty was based on cost to a large extent.

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

shit, if I was worried about the approved list, I wouldn't talk so much.

I wasn't sure if I understood your post. Was that approval?

Quote

so society dissolves it's own misfits, right?

You seemed ok with the idea of a redesigned euthenasia program of some kind. That may work for you as long as you are the one making that call. However, if someone else was counting the beans... you might be the guy who is one sandwich short of a picnic when using their yardstick. Ruh-roh!

[Michele 1]

Yes, ordered v. disordered have very different behavior patterns...most of the time, the only way an "ordered" killer is caught is when he is "disintegrating", like Bundy did in his last 4 killings in Florida. They are less impulsive as a whole, able to maintain and contain, plan and think through things, whereas disorganized serial killers tend to be more opportunistic, and not able to contain/maintain, tend to leave lots of clues as to who they are, and so forth.

This impulsivity or, conversely, the ability to maintain, can provide for them in jail. Bundy, using your example, was able to modify his behavior to such a degree - and be a value to the inmates in legal matters, et cetera (don't forget, he represented himself in one of the trials in FL, and had access to the legal library) so that he was not killed. He was thus able to be thought of as a valued individual - and further, (and in an ironic twist) was able to convince the FBI that he could help them solve the Green River Killers (I have the book, I should re-read it) and maybe provide more time for himself when he was nearing the end of his road...trying to bargain his way into more time by "talking about" the murders he had committed, confessing to more, and so forth.

Dahmer, OTOH, was seen as value-less to those he was incarcerated with, and, also rather disorganized (sheer luck and choice of victims were his friend), and was very "indiscreet" when it came to his killings (evidence all around his house, witnesses, etc.). He was unable to create any value, and in fact his death had value to other inmates in prison by creating status - thus he was beaten to death.

Take, however, the Hillside Stranglers. Buono, a smart, twisted, organized killer, has been able to reside fairly well in California prisons (to the best of my recollection...I could be off here...) whereas Bianchi, his cousin and partner in crime, once away from Buono, is the very reason Buono is in prison now - Biachi killed several women in Washington State, and was caught fairly simply (disorganized, impulsive). He then provided the evidence in the case against Buono, and that is primarily how they convicted him (along with damned good forensic and investigative techinques.)

(I could continue, but I suspect you are bored...LOL).

Anyway, the differences between organized v. disorganized are relatively clear, and easy to see in crime scenes - a professor once put it, "if there is an easily accessible crime scene, it's likely it's a disorganized killer"....

Quote

It only costs $500 thousand to warehouse them for life. The decision to quit using the death penalty was based on cost to a large extent.

Karla Homoulka's deal was not a death penalty issue - nor was her husband's sentence a death sentence. Karla was able to plead to 12 years (again, if memory serves), because she was able to testify against Paul Bernardo, who received 3 life sentences with no chance of parole. Karla, however, after striking the deal, produced videotaped evidence of her assisting in the killing of at least three victims. With time off for good behavior, Karla served only 9 of the 12 years, and unless I am greatly mistaken, is either about to be released or has already been released on parole.

That's the sweetheart deal she got. That's what I meant, not that she walked away from a DP case - Canada, as you stated, does not have the death penalty. This jackass, however, did walk away; 48 times. And that's the tragedy therein...

Considering he may well be able to establish himself higher on the pecking order than Dahmer, he might not be beaten to death with a mop...but a part of me hopes its not too long before we hear of his demise. And I feel horrible that I think that, but that's the way I see it.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

(I could continue, but I suspect you are bored...LOL).

I read The Stranger Beside Me by Anne Rule and The Criminal Mind for Writers.

Not bored.
According to Anne Rule, Bundy was a control freak. When he arrived in Florida, he was on the run. Things were starting to unravel for him.

Dahmer was successful because he operated in a sub-culture environment. Not a lot of questions asked by the neighbors. He developed the classic triad of features from an early age. I am surprised that he was never in prison for other crimes before then.