Rigless 0 #1 March 11, 2011 Hey, Does anyone have a manual anywhere on how to properly set up reverse 3 rings? For a Atom Axis container to be precise. Thanks"All limits are self imposed." Icarus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rugby82 0 #2 March 11, 2011 Try this link for all the manuals http://www.aerazur.com/en/parachute-and-protection/owners-manuals.htmlBlue skies! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rigless 0 #3 March 11, 2011 Thanks a lot mate, exactly what I needed "All limits are self imposed." Icarus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerolim 7 #4 March 11, 2011 Just to inform you - reverse 3 rings have 2 flaws. And one benefit. 1. Higher force (than normal 3 ring) is required for cutaway when dealing with high cenripetal forces. But if used on big docile canopies this is no problem. 2. If you have horseshue or dual out reserve risers will be pressing 3 ring and they won't cutaway. After pulling cutaway handle, you will have to pull them away from reserve risers - then they will work. Benefit - they are usually stronger (they don't have hole in them). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 55 #5 March 11, 2011 QuoteJust to inform you - reverse 3 rings have 2 flaws. And one benefit. 1. Higher force (than normal 3 ring) is required for cutaway when dealing with high cenripetal forces. But if used on big docile canopies this is no problem. 2. If you have horseshue or dual out reserve risers will be pressing 3 ring and they won't cutaway. After pulling cutaway handle, you will have to pull them away from reserve risers - then they will work. Benefit - they are usually stronger (they don't have hole in them). From BILL BOOTH (the inventor of 3-ring release): "Reversed risers are 3 ring risers where the riser rings face the jumpers body, instead of facing away as they do on normal risers. In a misguided attempt to make type 17 (mini) 3 ring risers stronger, the French eliminated the grommet that passes through the riser, thinking this was a weak point. They then put the "0" grommet for the closing loop to go through on a floppy 1" tab. Then, so that the 3-ring housings wouldn't have to come around to the front, flipped the riser over so that the riser rings faced the jumper's shoulders There are three problems with this approach. 1. Risers don't break at the grommet. They break where they go around the harness ring. 2. The closing loop on reversed risers does not make the 180 degree direction change it does on properly built risers, so the release force is doubled, and the "suck through" or "jamming" force is cut in half. 3. For a 3 rings to release, they must flip through each other. Since a bag lock might not stand you up enough to pull the risers away from your body, reversed risers might not release in that situation, because your body blocks the flip through motion. ------------------------------------------- I don't know about you, but I want my 3-rings to work EVERY time, in ANY malfunction situation. "Most of the time" just doesn't cut it. Reversed risers, soft housings, and all other "improvements" to the 3-ring lower reliability. Emergency systems are simply no place to cut corners. I cry every time I see a poorly made 3-ring, but there is nothing I can do about it, but tell you again, "There is one best way to make a 3-ring release system, and it doesn't cost a dime more to do it right. The plans are available from the Relative Workshop." How much is your life worth? ------------------------------------------- On reversed (Integrity) risers...The scariest stories I've heard about them happen in two canopy out situations. Often, the main risers are held back across the shoulders, preventing the unfortunate jumper from cutting the main away in a "personal downplane" situation. Reversed risers offer no advantages, have lower mechanical advantage, have no published construction or inspection specifications (so you can't tell if they are going to work in a high "G" situation), and can kill you in the above situation (and others). They should be replaced, and you should get very mad at anyone who sold them to you. The same is true for most "soft housing" 3-ring release systems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #6 March 11, 2011 If the inventor says its a bad idea, why , why would you continue to push for doing it ? or even ask about ? unbe efen beleivable...... smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slurp56 0 #7 March 11, 2011 Quote If the inventor says its a bad idea, why , why would you continue to push for doing it ? or even ask about ? unbe efen beleivable...... The Inventor is human, just like the rest of us, and just because it's typed on dropzone.com, doesnt make it gospel. I am surprised by the number of people on here that will read something and not even have the smarts to question the free advice they've been given on the internet. Integrity risers have their place in this world, just like everything else.________________________________________ I have proof-read this post 500 times, but I guarantee you'll still manage to find a flaw. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beatnik 2 #8 March 11, 2011 QuoteBenefit - they are usually stronger (they don't have hole in them). Here is some reading about Type 17 risers: Type 17 Riser Study http://www.jumpshack.com/default.asp?CategoryID=TECH&PageID=T17STUDY&SortBy=DATE_D Cause Of Type 17 Riser Failures Identified http://www.jumpshack.com/default.asp?CategoryID=TECH&PageID=T17FAILURE&SortBy=DATE_D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rigless 0 #9 March 11, 2011 I'm not gonna use the rig with reverse 3 rings for skydiving anymore, just for groundlaunching "All limits are self imposed." Icarus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #10 March 12, 2011 I've seen a few accuracy jumpers with the reverse 3ring set up...I don't get it. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Floflo 0 #11 March 12, 2011 Do not exagerate their dangerosity neither. I had PdF reverse risers and cutaway a fast spinning mal with no trouble at all, like thousands have done with no problem. I've witnessed three cases (and heard of more) when the risers did not release on their own and had to be helped. That's why I changed mine for "regular" risers. What I mean is, if they may not be the best idea in the world, they're not a death trap. Actually, they have not killed yet at my knowledge, after hundreds of thousands jumps with them (You can see this system everywhere in Europe). I would not say the same thing of soft housings with highly loaded mains. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 55 #12 March 12, 2011 Quote 2. If you have horseshue or dual out reserve risers will be pressing 3 ring and they won't cutaway. Like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ3I0v9OWK0 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FreeFlyer2100 0 #13 March 14, 2011 Something else to keep in mind is in the US reverse 3 rings are not common in skydiving and therefore could be tougher for someone to give you a gear check. If someone is not used to seeing them then they may not know if they are routed wrong when looking at them. Having someone give me a gear check before doing CRW gets a lot of strange looks and I can imagine you would get the same looks with reverse 3 rings. Really doesn't matter what people think about how your gear looks but if you are asking them to make sure you are going to be safe then it might make a difference. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #14 March 16, 2011 Listen Einstein.....It isn't mindless repeating of info on the internet, its fact. Bill has been warning about reverse risers and other idiot misadventures since long before the internet became a daily obsession. I've had the conversations with him, i have been fortunate to meet him several times over the years and he is a wealth of knowledge and a blast to talk to. Don't forget he has developed most of the important stuff you wear on your back when you step out. If the guy who invented the water bed tells you not to go to bed with broken glass in your pockets,,,would you consider that a good idea ? or would you say aww, "he don't know shit" ? smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slurp56 0 #15 March 16, 2011 Quote Listen Einstein.....It isn't mindless repeating of info on the internet, its fact. Don't worry! I believe you! Quote Bill has been warning about reverse risers and other idiot misadventures since long before the internet became a daily obsession. I know it! You should check out the article his company published on the RSL. If you search this website real hard, you're likely to find it in the article section. Quote I've had the conversations with him, i have been fortunate to meet him several times over the years and he is a wealth of knowledge and a blast to talk to. OMG! Me Too! Quote Don't forget he has developed most of the important stuff you wear on your back when you step out. I never called Bill a fool. I just called him human. Quote If the guy who invented the water bed tells you not to go to bed with broken glass in your pockets,,,would you consider that a good idea ? or would you say aww, "he don't know shit" ? I'd be less concerned about bursting the bed than I would be about having broken glass in my pockets. Let alone the inventor believing it was a logical scenario... Until next time, keep drinking that koolaid!________________________________________ I have proof-read this post 500 times, but I guarantee you'll still manage to find a flaw. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #16 March 16, 2011 Reverse risers bring nothing to the table except the possibility of problems. They serve no purpose. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
