funjumper101 15 #26 February 17, 2008 QuoteAwareness of your environment is the key. If for some reason I find myself so low on a dive with multiple groups and there is no chance of getting back up to the formation, I track away 90 degrees from jump run. This requires that I know what way jump run is and can maintain my situational awareness throughout the dive. 90 degrees assures that I won't track into another group. If your the only group on the dive the 90 degree rule does not apply. Some people may argue that the people left in the formation will not know where you are. I don't agree with that argument. Do you have everyone in constant view during track off? The idea of going low to assure seperation does not provide real seperation, that person that deployed above you might have a mal and have to chop droping right into you. The only way to ASSURE seperation is to have horizontal seperation. Doug Back when people were all flat flying, this wasn't such a bad idea. Now that there are wing suits, tracking dives, etc, this has become not such a good idea. I used to do this. Not anymore. It is safer to stay nearby and break off at the correct altitide, IMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deadbug 0 #27 February 17, 2008 Thats why all of my previous posts say that it's important to make a plan and that the plan varies depending on what type of load your on. I totally agree that if there is a wingsuiter or a tracking dive on the load that it's not a good idea to track off. The bottom line is please use your head and plan accordingly. every dive is different. Doug Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,434 #28 February 18, 2008 A lot of this is sort of pointless. Everyone has different opinions on how to deal with a funnel, or going low. But when you're on an organized dive, there's going to be a rule on what to do if you go low, and what to do during a funnel. That's the "right answer." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 200 #29 February 18, 2008 QuoteA lot of this is sort of pointless. Everyone has different opinions on how to deal with a funnel, or going low. But when you're on an organized dive, there's going to be a rule on what to do if you go low, and what to do during a funnel. That's the "right answer." What is your definition of an organized dive. I've gone on plenty of 4, 6, 8, 12 way "organized" dives where this issue was never discussed. You're right about everyone having different opinions and that's the "point" of this thread. I'm sure there's people who never go low and can't get back up so they don't even consider what they'd do in this situation. How many collisions do you remember over the span of your jump career? Seems like there's one or two every year and I think it comes from being in a position that you don't have a plan for. As far as I can see the 2007 SIM only addresses the issue like this: 3. Opening: a. The pull should be preceded by a distinct wave-off to signal jumpers who may be above. b. During the wave-off, one should look down and to the sides to ensure that the area is clear. c. The low person has the right-of-way, both in freefall and under canopy. There's alot missing here.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
strop45 0 #30 February 18, 2008 QuoteA lot of this is sort of pointless. Everyone has different opinions " yip, this is the internet. The same could be said of most threads. Part of the point is seeing what everyone's thoughts and opinions are. While some people may already know all of the answers and always be right, some of us are actually looking to learn and this type of discussion is, at least, somewhere to start..The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,648 #31 February 18, 2008 QuoteA lot of this is sort of pointless. Everyone has different opinions on how to deal with a funnel, or going low. But when you're on an organized dive, there's going to be a rule on what to do if you go low, and what to do during a funnel. That's the "right answer." I've not been on as many "organized" dives as you, but I've been on plenty where the instruction has been to stay close until breakoff altititude, and I've been on none where the instruction was to track away if you go low. I've been on a couple where jumpers were axed for tracking away prematurely.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fmmobley 0 #32 February 18, 2008 It has been discussed in other threads. This is a pretty good one... http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=1779381;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;... Marion Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grimmie 177 #33 February 18, 2008 If it was a perfect skydive world the low person would stay just out from under the fromation and pull in place at about 2200ft, sort of a reverse cameraman pulling in the middle. The rest of the formation could keep an eye on the jumper and would track at the designated altitudes and be very clear. But that would never happen in the real world and probably end up a disaster. There are many degrees of low, and how many are low. We all have probably tracked like hell to save ourselves at a high altitude on big ways gone bad. The best thing is to discuss it with the LO or the others in your group. There are many factors...how many groups? What exit position in the groups? What is the experience of the jumpers on your load? Start the "low guy buys beer rule" and it will eliminate this need for discussion! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,434 #34 February 18, 2008 >but I've been on plenty where the instruction has been to stay close until breakoff altititude . . . Agreed. That has been the rule on 99% of the dives I have been on. The 2002 300-way was one exception - if you got low and could not get back up within 10 seconds, you started tracking and pulled at 2000 feet. It happened to me once, and I ended up covering almost four miles. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,648 #35 February 18, 2008 Quote>but I've been on plenty where the instruction has been to stay close until breakoff altititude . . . Agreed. That has been the rule on 99% of the dives I have been on. The 2002 300-way was one exception - if you got low and could not get back up within 10 seconds, you started tracking and pulled at 2000 feet. It happened to me once, and I ended up covering almost four miles. Lots of nice desert out there!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
