Teachers' Salaries

[beej 0]

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Private school worked for Dubya

He referred to the Greeks as Greecians..'course it worked..

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If the shit fits - wear it (blues brothers)--

[lewmonst 0]

It's not that simple, of course. Per your analogy, the gas is not the same. If it was, then no parent would pay thousands each year to send their kids to private school. Yet at my school and many in California, there are waiting lists to get into a private school. Parents pay for more individualized attention, tougher curriculum, higher expectations and more opportunities.

How many people pay and extra 20 cents per gallon for Premium gas?

If public schools didn't exist like you want, I'd fear the quantity of children who wouldn't receive any education at all. Unfortunately not all parents care enough to pay money for basic necessities.

Peace

http://www.exitshot.com

[Squeak 17]

ppl thnis is just a joke, this went round the traps as an email about 12 months ago.
Only here in Oz the $ value was adjustaed accordingly
BTW We in oz dontr get paid for the time we dont teach, we are oly paid the normal annual leave entitlement

15 years ago I worked in construction the job had about 40 hours training for it nd I erned $1100.00 AUD take home per week.
This week with 4 years University training a Degree and Post GRaduate Diploma, I eraned $550.00 AUD
50% less than I earned as a construction lacky

Lucky I love my work
Man think of all the jumping I could be3 doing if I still earned over a grand a weeks
HMmmm where's that job guide

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[kallend 1,644]

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It's not that simple, of course. Per your analogy, the gas is not the same. If it was, then no parent would pay thousands each year to send their kids to private school. Yet at my school and many in California, there are waiting lists to get into a private school. Parents pay for more individualized attention, tougher curriculum, higher expectations and more opportunities.

How many people pay and extra 20 cents per gallon for Premium gas?

If public schools didn't exist like you want, I'd fear the quantity of children who wouldn't receive any education at all. Unfortunately not all parents care enough to pay money for basic necessities.

Peace

The analogy may not be perfect (no analogy is) but the fact remains that whenever the government interferes in anything, the laws of supply and demand go out the window. Private school education, no matter how good, is competing with a "free" product, and that reduces its perceived value to the buyer and the amount the school can charge the buyer. Simple economics.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kpjumps 0]

Private schools get to pick and choose who walks in their doors. But what about the special needs kids? Those who require occupational, physical, speech and other therapists to help them thrive? Should those parents be expected to pay the salary of ALL the support their child needs and deserves? When a child walks into a public school, we don't turn them away. They may be in wheel chairs, they may not have eaten since they left our school, they may have been beaten and cursed on the way out the door, everyone at home may be doing their best to just get the basics taken care of and the child is ignored. But they walk through the doors and they are greeted (at least at my school) with hugs and words of encouragement. We don't care what a test says they are able to do, we meet them where they are and attempt to push them to their max, educate them to the best of our ability. We accept, love and train them no matter how they look, act or behave. Private schools don't, and parents can't be expected to foot the bill for all of it alone. Most private schools can't even offer benefits to the teacher much less a retirement. I don't want as much money as I could make in the business world but I do think I should be able to take my children to the doctor.

Bottom line, schools can't be run like a business because they aren't. In business if you get garbage in, you put garbage out. If you have a less than perfect product, you toss it out or you return it and start over. My product coming in is damaged goods, and I STILL attempt to produce a GREAT human being.

Your character will ultimately determine your destiny.

[Nightingale 0]

Well said!

When I was teaching at a private school, if a child had a learning problem or a physical handicap, they were immediately dropped from the school and referred to the local public school. We weren't being cruel. We simply did not have the facilities to properly handle these children.

Our school had to drop a child with a peanut allergy because we did not have a full time school nurse capable of administering the necessary shot should the child be exposed to peanuts, and we could not absolutely guarantee that that would not happen.

At first, they tried to bully the person with the most medical training into taking responsibility for administering the shot. That would be my mom, the science teacher. She was a medical technologist for ten years before I came along. Her response: "HELL NO!" There's so much liability there that she wasn't gonna touch it.

Next, they tried to get me to "volunteer" as the person with the second most "medical training". Medical training my arse! I was a f-ing LIFEGUARD in college. CPR and first aid only! Again, there was no way I was gonna do it.

Then, they bugged our fourth grade teacher, who was diabetic, saying "well, you know how to give shots!" She looked at the principal like she was insane and said "not that kind!"

So, the child was transferred out. Did he get as good an education? probably not. However, there was someone there who was capable of dealing with his health requirements.

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

then everyone would want to be a teacher, regardless of whether or not they'd actually be good at it. Thing is, with teachers salaries being low, only those who truly do it for the love of teaching actually teach. . . on the flip side, some might go into it loving to teach, then after a few years of accumulating so much debt due to living beyond their means because basically they have to, they get tired of it and pursue other options, so we lose good teachers.

I don't know where I was going with this. ignore me.

Angela.

[Nightingale 0]

I loved to teach. I just couldn't afford to keep teaching. The politics got to me too.

I will finish grad school with a credential and a masters' degree. and $65,000 in debt. I can't afford to support myself on a teacher's salary, plus pay off the student loan. Just won't happen.

[kpjumps 0]

Well, someone who live the teacher's life, on a teacher's salary does... It is a catch 22, teachers have to do what they do because they have a passion about it. It CANNOT be about money. You can't put a price tag on having a vested interest in a child's life, it has to be something you feel called to do. If we made a fortune and got that much time off, people who were not in love with the kids would end up in classrooms.

I have to work a second job to make ends meet. I am not complaining because the other side of the coin is people who don't love the job would end up in schools.

No amount of testing me or the children can change the fact that I am alone all day, minus a couple of observation days, with defeseless five year olds. No amount of money can buy my love for them.

That said, I should not have to pay for the supplies in my room. The books I read to my children, the VCR they watch educational videos on belongs to me. The tapes they listen to and the books on tape are my personal property. The crayons, the glue, the manipulatives in the math center, the yellow take home folders, you get the idea. Even the laminating of materials I buy and make is laminated at school then I get a bill for it. Yet I am have NO set supply budget from the state to pay that bill, it comes out of my pocket. Go figure...
What would the general population of workers do if they were told they had to supply the computer paper they typed memos on, the pens they wrote with, the staples they used on those memos? What if the copier broke down and the admin assistant had to fix it out of her salary? Seems silly huh?

No, it can't be about money, it MUST be about loving the kids...

Bet the admin assistant has days she HATES her job and can't wait to leave. I have NEVER in 7 years hated my job, not once. In fact, I cry at the end of each and every year as I give out one last hug and a letter from their teacher telling them of my favorite memory with them...

Wouldn't trade that feeling for six figures, ever...

Your character will ultimately determine your destiny.

[kallend 1,644]

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then everyone would want to be a teacher, regardless of whether or not they'd actually be good at it. Thing is, with teachers salaries being low, only those who truly do it for the love of teaching actually teach. . . on the flip side, some might go into it loving to teach, then after a few years of accumulating so much debt due to living beyond their means because basically they have to, they get tired of it and pursue other options, so we lose good teachers.

I don't know where I was going with this. ignore me.

Angela.

Like everyone right now wanting to be a medical doctor or a lawyer, even though they may be lousy at it?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,644]

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Private schools get to pick and choose who walks in their doors. But what about the special needs kids? Those who require occupational, physical, speech and other therapists to help them thrive? Should those parents be expected to pay the salary of ALL the support their child needs and deserves? When a child walks into a public school, we don't turn them away. They may be in wheel chairs, they may not have eaten since they left our school, they may have been beaten and cursed on the way out the door, everyone at home may be doing their best to just get the basics taken care of and the child is ignored. But they walk through the doors and they are greeted (at least at my school) with hugs and words of encouragement. We don't care what a test says they are able to do, we meet them where they are and attempt to push them to their max, educate them to the best of our ability. We accept, love and train them no matter how they look, act or behave. Private schools don't, and parents can't be expected to foot the bill for all of it alone. Most private schools can't even offer benefits to the teacher much less a retirement. I don't want as much money as I could make in the business world but I do think I should be able to take my children to the doctor.

Bottom line, schools can't be run like a business because they aren't. In business if you get garbage in, you put garbage out. If you have a less than perfect product, you toss it out or you return it and start over. My product coming in is damaged goods, and I STILL attempt to produce a GREAT human being.

How does what you said apply to education but not to medical care, for example?

A mixed system with one having a "free" product in competition with another that has to be paid for by the consumer will ALWAYS result in low salaries for the private teachers.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,644]

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but you're going to end up with no schools in areas where people can't afford to pay for them. how do you propose to solve that issue?

I would like a Maserati, but I can't afford one. Sucks, doesn't it, when you don't have enough for the basics.

I never claimed to be solving social issues, I gave a solution to the problem of low teacher pay.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[n2skdvn 0]

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You can't put a price tag on having a vested interest in a child's life

with that i give every teacher my gratitude,I worked as a teachers asst. while i was going to the same college and one of the students that i took my own personal time and helped out thanked me at graduation. made me feel better than the honors that i got. on the other hand I dont think I could handle that type of work long myself.

if my calculations are correct SLINKY + ESCULATOR = EVERLASTING FUN
my site

[Nightingale 0]

and I gave you a reason why your "solution" wasn't a solution at all, because it defeats the very spirit of teaching, which is to give EVERY child an educational opportunity.

[kallend 1,644]

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and I gave you a reason why your "solution" wasn't a solution at all, because it defeats the very spirit of teaching, which is to give EVERY child an educational opportunity.

That's a very recent "spirit"; universal formal education is a 19th century invention, along with Marxism. It doesn't have to be that way, and it wasn't that way for millennia.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Nightingale 0]

do you really want to live in a world where the average person is illiterate?

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

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I have NEVER in 7 years hated my job, not once. In fact, I cry at the end of each and every year as I give out one last hug and a letter from their teacher telling them of my favorite memory with them...

Wouldn't trade that feeling for six figures, ever...

Wow, that is moving! You are awesome!

Yeah, it is definitely unfair that you should have to pay for those things. A shame

Hope you have a Happy New Year!
Angela.

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

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do you really want to live in a world where the average person is illiterate?

For one, I do not! I definitely believe that even the poor should be educated. There are enough rich people in this country... take more taxes from the for education if $$ is lacking. jmo.

Oh, and what about lottery funds? I know that the Fla lottery is supposed to have funds alloted to education, though i'm unsure of a % or fixed sum and where exactly that $$ goes (I suspect only Florida?).

Angela.

[kallend 1,644]

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do you really want to live in a world where the average person is illiterate?

Are you saying that socialism is a good thing? "Free" universal public education is socialism.

And how is this different from saying that I don't want to live in a world where sick people can't afford health care, so free public health care should be provided by the government?

The biggest objectors to socialized medicine are the medical doctors and other health care professionals. They see clearly that "free" public health care means reduced income for them, just like "free" public education does for teachers.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,644]

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do you really want to live in a world where the average person is illiterate?

For one, I do not! I definitely believe that even the poor should be educated. There are enough rich people in this country... take more taxes from the for education if $$ is lacking. jmo.


Angela.

Don't you see some contradiction between your statement above and your sig line, which contains:

" You are responsible for your life! "

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kpjumps 0]

So, you expect children to be responsible for their life? At the ripe old age of say, seven or eight, you feel that they can change the circumstances of their birth?

Health care is another issue~ work full time at Wal-Mart and you qualify. Any adult has that option, you may be living in poverty and barely getting by, but you have a CHOICE. Children don't. You can't compare health care for able bodied adults and education.

Yes, the government has a responsibility to care for those who cannot care for themselves.

You cannot seriously advocate returning to an ancient system that produced farmers, primarily. A system where class has everything to do with advancement in society. I am a productive, tax paying member of society and yet, I am the child of homeless vet. I grew up and learned how to survive without running water . I can survive just fine on a campground. So, where would I have been in a system that required my father to pay for my education? He was so messed up from Vietnam he could barely sleep through a night until he found peace after he died of agent orange related cancer.

Was I not worthy of an education?

Your character will ultimately determine your destiny.

[downwardspiral 0]

I wholeheartedly agree with kallend. Socialism sucks ass.

Everyone keeps asking ... well what about these people and these people over here? Thats the beauty of capitalism folks. If there is a need it will be filled. If there is competition the price will go down. If I was an investor I would most certainly get involved in education because there will always be a need just like funeral homes. But because education is socialized there is not a need and we all know how well that is working out.

If you can't afford to educate your kid/s, what business do you have breeding? Why should I have to pay for your kids education?

In fact I end up paying for the kids of those people who can afford it because "why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free."

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[Squeak 17]

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So, the child was transferred out. Did he get as good an education? probably not. However, there was someone there who was capable of dealing with his health requirements.

I find it unbeleivably judgmental to assume that since the boy was not retained at a privates school that he did not receive a good education.
From your posts you seem to think that teaching is a calling, I am a teacher in a public school and for the most part many of the teachers I know DO find it a calling, however many also don't.
Now to say teaching is a calling and then say that a child who went to a public school didn't get a good education is mind blowing. Do you actually think that good teacher ONLY work in private school.
Public school are were MOST of thw developed western world is educated, and I would hazard to geuss many people on this forum were educated in public schools.
I wonder how many think they had a poor education DUE to public schooling (not your own behaviour)

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[Nightingale 0]

I wasn't referring to public schools in general. I know the public school he went to, and frankly, its a pretty scary place. Lots of gangs and violence, and not a lot of funding.

Public schools can absolutely provide excellent education. Again, I wasn't referring to a generality, but rather to the specific school the child went to.