BoilingMidnight 0 #26 February 25, 2008 QuoteIn the post by RiggerRob no where did he ever mention illegal aliens. You are the only one that did. Your post refers to "millions of illegal aliens". Wow, you should know when to stop digging. Ok, let's begin: The post you refer to did not make a statement, it asked a question, as evidenced by the question mark at the end of it. If I had made a statement it would have sported a period instead. You do understand the difference...?"Iþ ik qiþa izwis, ni andstandan allis þamma unseljin." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #27 February 25, 2008 QuoteQuoteIn the post by RiggerRob no where did he ever mention illegal aliens. You are the only one that did. Your post refers to "millions of illegal aliens". Wow, you should know when to stop digging. Ok, let's begin: The post you refer to did not make a statement, it asked a question, as evidenced by the question mark at the end of it. If I had made a statement it would have sported a period instead. You do understand the difference...? Your question wasn't in regards to whether or not the people were illegal aliens. In fact you relabeled the people that RiggerRob was refering to as "illegal aliens". So yes you did ask a question, but you also made a statement while asking the question. btw yes I do understand the difference. It appears that you don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoilingMidnight 0 #28 February 25, 2008 QuoteSo yes you did ask a question, but you also made a statement while asking the question. btw yes I do understand the difference. It appears that you don't. lol, I don't think you do if you think a statement and a question are the same thing."Iþ ik qiþa izwis, ni andstandan allis þamma unseljin." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #29 February 25, 2008 Question 1 "Can you explain how these vital millions of illegal aliens could be employed while simultaneously being "ignored by white Americans"?" Question 2 Can you explain how these vital millions of non english speaking people could be employed while simultaneously being "ignored by white Americans"? Do you see the difference between these two questions? One drifts off topic and relabels the people in question and the other doesn't. Care to guess which is which? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #30 February 25, 2008 It is possible to ask a question while simultaneously making a statement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoilingMidnight 0 #31 February 25, 2008 QuoteIt is possible to ask a question while simultaneously making a statement. lol Res ipsa loquitur! But I'm afraid you'll have to find someone else to come trit-trotting across your bridge..."Iþ ik qiþa izwis, ni andstandan allis þamma unseljin." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #32 February 25, 2008 Would you like another example? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #33 February 25, 2008 Both of you - stop with the Speakers Corner argument, and stick with the topic of the thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squarecanopy 0 #34 February 26, 2008 QuoteBest case: the student learns the common language of the dropzone where he jumps. How else will he get information from the jump master / pilot in case of an emergency? denete makes an excellent point. Just burning a hole in the sky..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsaxton 0 #35 February 26, 2008 That is horrible grammer, try "No lo chingues" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #36 February 26, 2008 QuoteIs any other DZ successfully tapping this market of people with disposable income?? If that's the only motivation, then that stinks. On the other hand if the goal is to bring someone passionate about jumping into the sport then I suggest the following: Aviation in the USA (and in some of the rest of the world) is an English language activity BY LAW for reasons of safety. Communication between ALL participants in an emergency or any other setting is paramount to safety. Anything beyond an introductory tandems in the USA should be taught in English. Period.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #37 February 26, 2008 QuoteAviation in the USA (and in some of the rest of the world) is an English language activity BY LAW for reasons of safety. Communication between ALL participants in an emergency or any other setting is paramount to safety. Anything beyond an introductory tandems in the USA should be taught in English. Period. By that logic, only English speakers should be allowed to skydive in the US. Regardless of how many jumps they have or which world championship they are training for... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #38 February 26, 2008 If the international standard in aviation were say, French, then I'd be compelled to learn it if I wanted to be involved in aviation. I didn't make the rules.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #39 February 26, 2008 Quote If the international standard in aviation were say, French, then I'd be compelled to learn it if I wanted to be involved in aviation. And you'd likely be as unintelligible on the radios in French as are the many Japanese who come to the US to learn to fly airplanes and helicopters are in English. If English is the official language of aviation, why is the diploma I got from the FAI written in French? But you're right. Mass should be said in Latin. Saying it in the vernacular is wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RB_Hammer 0 #40 February 26, 2008 Quote If English is the official language of aviation, why is the diploma I got from the FAI written in French? Get on any commercial flight, sit in the emergency exit row and if you do not speak and understand English, you are moved. This is for safety."I'm not lost. I don't know where I'm going, but there's no sense in being late." Mathew Quigley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #41 February 26, 2008 QuoteGet on any commercial flight, sit in the emergency exit row and if you do not speak and understand English, you are moved. This is for safety. And that has what to do with skydiving? When was the last time you had a conversation with another skydiver in freefall or under canopy? If verbal communication is so important in skydiving, why are deaf people allowed to jump? I'm pretty sure that at least some of the people on the 400 way didn't speak English; should they have not been allowed on the dives? Skydiving should be taught in a language that the student understands. That may take some extra effort on the part of the student - they may have to find a dz that has bilingual instructors or bring their own interpreter. btw, JP - Saying that tandem passengers are okay to take if they don't speak English is promoting the idea that a tandem jump is nothing more than an amusement park ride... if an AFF student has to speak English then a tandem student should have to speak English as well. They're both STUDENTS, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RB_Hammer 0 #42 February 26, 2008 QuoteQuoteGet on any commercial flight, sit in the emergency exit row and if you do not speak and understand English, you are moved. This is for safety. And that has what to do with skydiving? Oh, I guess about as much as your statement about the FAI award..."I'm not lost. I don't know where I'm going, but there's no sense in being late." Mathew Quigley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #43 February 26, 2008 QuoteOh, I guess about as much as your statement about the FAI award... Sorry. I thought that an award for skydiving was skydiving related. My bad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RB_Hammer 0 #44 February 26, 2008 Quote Sorry. I thought that an award for skydiving was skydiving related. My bad. You are quite right, a skydiving award is related to skydiving. I am sure whatever it was, you rightly deserved it and have every right to be proud of it. The context of the message you posted seemed to be related to the use of English as the official language of aviation. I may have mis-read your post. Quote And you'd likely be as unintelligible on the radios in French as are the many Japanese who come to the US to learn to fly airplanes and helicopters are in English. If English is the official language of aviation, why is the diploma I got from the FAI written in French? But you're right. Mass should be said in Latin. Saying it in the vernacular is wrong. Hmm, does not seem like I mis-read it, I did leave out the Latin thing about mass though. Not sure what the relevance of that is. On topic, I really don't see why English would have to be a requirement of skydiving. Even in my short time in the sport, I have jumped with people who speak and understand very little English and had a great time. Usually, no matter what your language on the plane, you can't hear anyhow. "I'm not lost. I don't know where I'm going, but there's no sense in being late." Mathew Quigley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #45 February 26, 2008 Quotebtw, JP - Saying that tandem passengers are okay to take if they don't speak English is promoting the idea that a tandem jump is nothing more than an amusement park ride... if an AFF student has to speak English then a tandem student should have to speak English as well. They're both STUDENTS, right? Absolutely, and I probably need to clarify. If I am completely unable to communicate with a "passenger" I won't jump them. However there is a significant loss of "control" in an AFF or Static line jump.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #46 February 26, 2008 >Anything beyond an introductory tandems in the USA should be taught in >English. Period. We used to get Japanese students in San Diego. They'd fly to San Diego/LA from Japan and go through the course with us. It was actually cheaper for them to fly to the US, go through the course, get their A license and fly back than it was for them to go through the course there. Generally a few would speak english and would serve as translators for the rest. We made sure they understood basic commands under canopy and could respond to hand signals. Beyond that, there was really no point in making them learn english, since they were just going back to Japan afterwards. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meteor 0 #47 February 28, 2008 Thanks, billvon!!! I started this thread to get a genuine answer to a genuine question. I am amazed that so many people got so distracted so fast!!! And not just about race but also about tapping a financial market. Sorry about being a capitalist pig but running a business requires me to be a bit of a capitalist and not always part of the "hippy commune" approach to skydiving. Once in a while we have to replace an engine or pay for new gear to help keep the DZ open and that requires looking for new markets and some inovations in order to tap those markets. The student in question is VERY passionate about skydiving and is progressing well. He IS learning more English but I had hoped that somewhere in our great big world that maybe someone had already crossed this bridge. That way I wouldn't have to "reinvent the wheel" in order to deal with this. I apologize for stirring up so much Xenophobia with my simple thread. It's lunchtime, I think I'll go to El Tapatio and get the large platter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoilingMidnight 0 #48 March 5, 2008 QuoteI apologize for stirring up so much Xenophobia That's quite an attack. Can you: a) Define xenophobia b) Identify what was said that was "xenophobic" ? (...but perhaps this post will be likewise deleted as in previous cases where I've exposed personal attack and hypocrisy...)"Iþ ik qiþa izwis, ni andstandan allis þamma unseljin." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RandomLemming 0 #49 March 7, 2008 Quote Get on any commercial flight, sit in the emergency exit row and if you do not speak and understand English, you are moved. This is for safety. I'm not convinced about that. I just spent 4 months and a LOT of commercial flights around north and west Africa. On the majority of these flights, none of the sky waitresses spoke any english at all, and in many cases, neither of the drivers did either. I sat in the emergency exit row on numerous occasions, despite being completely unable to communicate with any staff on board the aircraft in the beginning, and only able to communicate in broken French towards the end (Je sui parlez un per Francais ment now) Also, most of the airlines I used (sadly not all) are not on the EU banned list, so I'm guessing that they're legit to some degree or another. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meteor 0 #50 March 7, 2008 No, BoilingMidnight, that was NOT an attack, that was a statement. After wading through the argument that raged between you, riggerrob and beowulf it was obvious that xenophobia is an accurate description. Xenophobia is defined as a fear or contempt of that which is foreign or unknown especially of strangers or foreign people. It is derived from the Greek words "xenos" meaning stranger and "phobos" meaning fear. The term is typically used to describe fear or dislike of foreigners or in general of people different from oneself. In Science Fiction genre it is used to describe fear of extraterrestrials or "aliens", legal or not. What was said that was xenophobic started with your first post in response to my OP. A few people gave me relevant info to my OP and then you, riggerrob and beowulf got into your side argument. Billvon chastised the side argument and I agreed that it did not help me with my request. With all that said, I will only respond to posts that may help me with my dilemma. I did not intend to flame anyones ire and if I did with this post or any other, I apologize profusely and beg forgiveness for being unable to express myself in a way that doesn't tick some people off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
