Storm's toggles length

[mariobat 0]

Hi all,
I have a problem during landing with my new storm.
Before Storm I had a Sabre2 135 and I havn’t any kind of problem during landings but now with my new Storm 135, often I land too fast and I’m not able to reduce orizontal speed and to increase lift in right way. In my opinion the toggles are too long.
Could you help me to have the right length on toggles?
Blue Skyes
Mario

[sacex250 0]

Could it be that your arms are just too short?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

It's all been said before, no sense repeating it here.

[peek 20]

Quote

Hi all,
I have a problem during landing with my new storm.
Before Storm I had a Sabre2 135 and I havn’t any kind of problem during landings but now with my new Storm 135, often I land too fast and I’m not able to reduce orizontal speed and to increase lift in right way. In my opinion the toggles are too long.
Could you help me to have the right length on toggles?
Blue Skyes
Mario

All,

In case he is talking about steering line length, here is a drawing to reference when asking and answering questions. Mario, is this what you are asking?

[mariobat 0]

Yes, sorry for The mistake...Steering line I mean. With The Sabre2 I havn't this problem!

[Hellis 0]

Can you stall the canopy?
If not, how much more is needed before you can?

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

Could this be due to the inherent differences between 9 cell and 7 cell canopies?

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[chutingstar 1]

Here is the link to the line trim chart so you and/or your rigger can measure the brake lines to see if the length of everything is correct as far as the factory specs...and if so, you can then start getting advice on how you're flying the canopy or if you need to adjust the length.

http://performancedesigns.com/docs/linetrims/TF-TK-120-230-Line-Trim-Chart.pdf

Mike

ChutingStar.com

[AggieDave 6]

Please read PD's article on this issue and getting the most out of your canopy: http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/Best_Performance1.pdf

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

Could this be due to the inherent differences between 9 cell and 7 cell canopies?

That'd be my bet.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[DSE 3]

Some of it is. On both of my Storm canopies, I found that the steering line length that PD recommends is too conservative, so I shortened them by 2" and found it just right.
There is too much slack in the factory length.
At two inches shorter, I have to put the toggles to mid-thigh before it stalls out.

[mariobat 0]

Quote

Some of it is. On both of my Storm canopies, I found that the steering line length that PD recommends is too conservative, so I shortened them by 2" and found it just right.
There is too much slack in the factory length.
At two inches shorter, I have to put the toggles to mid-thigh before it stalls out.

I agree with you... Too much long!
Thanks to all...

[riggerrob 558]

Agreed!
Most of PD's steering line lengths were written by John LeBlanc, who is taller and has longer arms than most skydivers.
So most hard-core skydivers like their steering lines slightly shorter than PD recommends.
Since I have long arms, I find the factory settings "just right" for turf-surfing with Sabre 1s and Stilettos.
How long comes down to to personal preference, but I am an old-school accuracy competitor and I still like my canopy to stall when I pull my toggles below my waist.

If you can pull your toggles to mid-thigh, you must have arms as long as a gorilla!
Hah!
Hah!

[LouDiamond 1]

While I don't disagree with anything thats been put out so far, especially when it comes to ones preferences, I will say that the problem you describe is not uncommon for those new to the Storm.

The Storm has a very deep toggle stroke before the canopy transitions into level/horizontal flight than most canopies. This point in some peoples cases can actually be well below what they are doing to shut their old canopy down completely. As a result, some people mention that the canopy comes in very hot or that they are not getting any flare, especially on low wind days. I have found that generally speaking, you have to flair to around nipple level to get the canopy to level off into horizontal flight and then continue to upper/mid thigh or in some peoples cases, full arm extension until your feet are on the ground. I've attached a few shots to illustrate what I am talking about. Take note of where my hands/toggles are and the condition of the tail of the canopy in relation to where I am over the ground.

Give this a try for several jumps and see if your landings improve any. If not then look at possibly shortening your steering line toggle attachment points. Just make sure you check afterwards that they aren't too short as per the illustration that Peek provided above.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[DSE 3]

Just triple checked what I thought was right;
Stall is just below beltline now with the shortened steering. Flare starts at shoulder height, finishes nicely at bellybutton height.
And yeah...I got hairy knuckles. Wanna make something of it?

[riggerrob 558]

Sounds like the flare on a PD Pulse is more like the flare on an Icarus Safire ... longer than most.

I was always amused when people complained that their new Safires "didn't flare," to which I usually replied: "Maybe if you FINISHED your toggle stroke ... to below your belt ..."

[mariobat 0]

Thanks to' all for experience excange!
Blue Skyes
Mario

[mariobat 0]

When I fully extend my arms the canopy dosn't stall, it is quite in pre-stall!

Mario

[Hellis 0]

So how much shorter does the lines need to be for you to stall it?
You can grab the lines higher up or wrap them around your hands and try to flare.

I would recomend that you shorten them as it will probably make it easier to flare the canopy, but its also associated with a risk as you might understand so talk to your rigger or instructor about it.