Anyone still like NAFTA

[Antithesis 0]

If you live in the USA are you as pissed as I am?

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http://www.citizen.org/trade/nafta/

January 1, 2004 marks the tenth anniversary of the North American Free Trade Agreement’s implementation. NAFTA promoters - including many of the world’s largest corporations - promised it would create hundreds of thousands of new high-wage U.S. jobs, raise living standards in the U.S., Mexico and Canada, improve environmental conditions and transform Mexico from a poor developing country into a booming new market for U.S. exports.

[rant] Alright, here we are, nearly 3 million jobs later with what? Bullshit! 10 yrs ago NAFTA supporters said that the US economy would thrive because of nafta. But look at it Nothing about this makes sense to me. Why would we kep a program that gives US jobs away to countries that will work for less to sell the same products right back to us when conditions are as they are.

how does the Great USA have the right to be policing the world when we can't even maintain a steady economy for the people that our nation is supposed to support...Its own people

Why haven't the presidential cantidates been talking about this? They Blame Bush for job loss .. Are they going to stand up to industry and do something about this? [/rant]

People of other nations feel free to point your fingers this way and laugh.. This country deserves it Besides your currency has probably gained against the dollar, it's your right.

I travel the land, Work in the ocean, Play in the sky

[fallman 0]

I did a research paper on NAFTA this past semester and also wasn't much impressed with its results. In a little over a month i'll be taking a tour of the maquilladora sector of Tijuana where people slave away for little pay in plants producing nokia cellphones and american car doors for pennies on the dollar. Who thought this would be a good idea?

woa....that was cool....

[stratostar 5]

Pay attention next time your driving on the highway
and count how many 18 wheelers you see from canada, running our highways and hauling loads that Americans trucks should be hauling, and a lot of them are going to mexico, canada to mexico hauled by trucks from canada,and then loads back to canada.
FUCK NAFTA!
And they drive like shit too.....

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[PhillyKev 0]

Hey, those poor business owners need to make a profit. Why shouldn't we let them take the money they get from us and use it to hire 12 year olds to work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, for miniscule wages. After all, it keeps the cost of their products down and puts all the evil stupid companies that actually employ Americans out of business.

[benny 0]

Free trade is wonderful in theory, but generally sucks ass in reality.

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[Antithesis 0]

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Why shouldn't we let them take the money they get from us and use it to hire 12 year olds to work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, for miniscule wages. .

It gives them a strong back and character too!

The USA is the land of the free .. Let's give it away

I travel the land, Work in the ocean, Play in the sky

[pleifer 0]

Well I lost my job to nafta....
weyerhaeuser figured there is enough production else where to shut our mill down.....
the only mill like us is in mexico.....
and one on the east coast.....
hmmm we made 1.5 mil profit the month we shut down .... greedy bastards
and now nafta can't figure out if it was because of free trade, so in the meanwhile there are a few of us who are scraping to keep going to school while they decide if they want to kick up a grant....
ok so I woke up on the wrong side of the bed
but still angers me.....

_________________________________________
The Angel of Duh has spoke

[jumpinfarmer 0]

As a farmer I can say that NAFTA probably takes six figures out of my pocket and every other farmers every year to. Canadian grain, meat, vegatables, floral products, and fruit and Mexican vegitables and fruit and other goods flow freely to this country. We sell very little to Canada other than corn and soybeans because they can grow so much more than there population needs. Mexican fruit and vegitables are not inspected as good as should be at the border. Look at the ChiChi's hepititus outbreak in PA last year. They also can use chemicles that we can't in the US, but thats OK because they are a downtrodden people.
Now they wan't to sell us down streem to the Austrailians and New Zeland. This will devistate the dairy and sugar industries in this country. The only ones to benifit are the big businesses. YOU the consumer will never see a lower price for anything you buy.
Sorry for the ranting but this bugs the hell out of me and there isn't much I can do about it.
Marc

[sharpfive 0]

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I did a research paper on NAFTA this past semester and also wasn't much impressed with its results.

Did you look into Chapter 11 of the treaty? It gives foreign corporations the right to sue the US Gov't for lost profits. Case in point, a company that makes a carcinogenic gasloine additive is suing because California banned it. Not only that, the hearings are held in private; no media allowed. Our elected leaders pass legislation to protect our lives, and then we as taxpayers pay up for it. It looks like they sold us down the river. Oh, and one of the chief US negotiators for the treaty resigned upon its passing and went to help a Canadian tobacco company sue because they are forced to put the health warning on their packaging. I saw something about this on PBS, maybe someone with more knowledge than I can shed some light on this. I sure hope it's not as bad as it seems.

[shawnstarr 0]

yeah! fuck NAFTA! one more sign of how corporations run this country!

------------------------------------------------
'I refuse to tiptoe quitely through life
only to arrive safely at death' Anon

[JoeyRamone 0]

NAFTA has been a total waste of time and cost the USA millions. Plus all of jobs lost...

[Jimbo 0]

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Plus all of jobs lost...

Perhaps fewer jobs would be lost if the American worker didn't demand unreasonable wages for unskilled labor. There's a reason that some companies are unable to compete while manufacturing in the USA, and are forced to outsource south of the border.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[benny 0]

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Plus all of jobs lost...

Perhaps fewer jobs would be lost if the American worker didn't demand unreasonable wages for unskilled labor. There's a reason that some companies are unable to compete while manufacturing in the USA, and are forced to outsource south of the border.

-
Jim

And what Jim do you consider reasonable wages? 60 cents an hour? 5.25 and hour times 40 hours equals 210 dollars - 40 or so in taxes, 170 times fifty weeks a year with the lowest vacation times in the free world. What's that? Less than 10 grand? Yeah, those damn unreasonable wages for unskilled labor...

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[Snowbird 0]

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We sell very little to Canada other than corn and soybeans because they can grow so much more than there population needs.

And yet US potatoes exported to BC have severly depressed our market, and when the tariffs are lifted in April (or May I can't remember exactly when) will drive the price even lower until the sale price will be below our production price. Hot house produce suffers the same; tomatoes are dumped into our market at shamefully low prices that our local growers can't hope to match and stay afloat.

And then the big business retail stores (US and Canadian both) are taking advantage of the retail customer. You wouldn't believe the mark up on some produce.

And I won't even BEGIN about softwood.

NAFTA hasn't exactly been roses in Canada either.

Not looking to start a battle here. Just pointing out the irony that what was supposed to be great for all involved hasn't had the expected results.

Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea.
-Robert A. Heinlein

[pleifer 0]

point is nafta sux. No matter the country.

probably wrong. but imho

_________________________________________
The Angel of Duh has spoke

[Mirage63 0]

Hey Benny,

Hummmm I don't think anyone in your example would pay taxes, and in fact would recieve more money back than they paid in.

Still not a lot to live on.....

but labor cost is labor cost, the market will find away to the lowest cost if left alone. Yes labor cost more here. Some because of the rules we have, which are needed, But not all. We can make many American products unmarketable (price wise) by MAKING them here, or we can move production to the lower cost labor markets.

It's just simple facts.

Nope you don't have to like it, yes you can bitch and talk about how unfair it is. But it's not going to go away unless we ditch a LOT MORE than NAFTA.

But hey I sure like to skydive

[bobsled92 0]

I agree with you and more. I live in PA and no one has lifted the ban of something that should have never been allowed in our country. BAXTER labs shoved jobs to Mexico and my brother was a Bio/chem Sr. scienist there for years and throw to the wolves. (they just ask for him back but had to move, Irvine to Maryland).
My company Vz has all the DSL support in Canada and INDIA!!!!!!!!!!!! yet I still can't ge transfered to Fla yet due to "organization" (we have 2 guys down there that want to switch with a fellow Tech & I, in Clearwater/St. Pete>Z-Hills area)
NAFTA is a way of saying "We got i passed, the money's coming in and the MESS?....can't see it from MY house" as they pad their pockets and Retire in Scottdale. So "F"ing weird. I live here in Lancaster County, PA Amish Country and It's hitting here....Clinton agreed to a Republican bill......bi-partisan just means "I've been paid" not "I co-operate".

_______________________________
If I could be a Super Hero,
I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year.
http://www.hangout.no/speednews/

[bobsled92 0]

>> You wouldn't believe the mark up on some >>produce.
My daughter just paid $6.00 for 1/4lb of blueberries.

>>And I won't even BEGIN about softwood.
The whole affair has made my wood soft too.

>>NAFTA hasn't exactly been roses in Canada either.
Family on the Ontario Side, Moose Jaw, & Scotia.
THe "cross border shopping deal has ben a thing for as long as long as the late 1980's (and Petrol!?...just cruel) It hurt eveyone. I see no winners except those that cashed in like "little inside trading bastards" on Capital Hill! (and to think of the crap my Dad had to do to protect them)think m

_______________________________
If I could be a Super Hero,
I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year.
http://www.hangout.no/speednews/

[Dougjumper 0]

NAFTA...No good for Hard Working Honest men and Women of the US..

Problem here is we need Jobs in America..so we
can be self sufficent..not rely on other Countries
for our Jobs...

Never felt good or liked it in the First Place...

The glass is half full or half empty doesn't matter. Let go and have the Lord guide your path. He will take care of it all.

[Antithesis 0]

Yes, we need jobs here so outsourcing them makes no sense!

I'm not buying anything not made in the usa anymore.

My job is secure (infact in higher demand because of nafta) I'm a merchant marine in international shipping. What good is a good job if you don't have a good country to share it with?

I travel the land, Work in the ocean, Play in the sky

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Good god ... nothing but whinning going on in this thread. Hey people, you live in the richest nation in the history of the world with opportunities galor. And you're not happy. If you don't like the fact that there are no jobs, get off of your asses, educate yourself and start your own businesses. I tell you that this truly is the land of opportunity yet you do nothing but whine.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Antithesis 0]

Actually I'm whining and eating a paste right now.

I think you missed the point. I am Voicing my complaint, and I have written my congressman.

This thread isn't about getting educated, I am and have a job, It's about an imbalance in the job market that is proving to be a mistake for my nation.

Now that the truth is out about Nafta maybe more people will be pissed about it and make a change.

There is a process for change you know
Thanks for your input Canuck In MY Country

I travel the land, Work in the ocean, Play in the sky

[happythoughts 0]

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If you don't like the fact that there are no jobs, get off of your asses, educate yourself and start your own businesses.

Jobs with an education level of high school:
Entry level. Call center jobs are moving overseas. .
Manufacturing. In China, they pay 25cents an hour.
Electronics. Almost all stereos and tvs (except Zenith) are made overseas.
Steel/Cars. If it weren't for import quotas and protections, I doubt there would be American made cars.
Agriculture. Most orange juice is imported from S. America.

There are only two industries that are still capable of creating high-paying jobs that provide a tax base.
Chips and software.
When the chip industry was threatened, there was a raft of protectionist legislation. Only software written for the government has to be done onshore, only part of that.

Education has nothing to do with this. I have 2 college degrees and I have ran my own business.
There is no competing with people assembling toys for 30cents an hour or writing software for $11 an hour.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

So what do you expect the money hungry execs of corporate America to do? Pay more $$$ for domestic labor when they know they can pay less somewhere else? Get real people. The execs (who run the country) couldn't careless about the welfare of the general public. They are too busy watching the value of the stock portfolios to care about you or I. Either learn to adapt, find somewhere else to live and work, or go on with the status quo. Of course you also live in a democracy and if you don't like the current government, vote for someone different and let your local rep know that you don't like the status quo. However, I really don't think the government or big business really cares about you or I, all they care about is their own welfare.

Welcome to America people. It's a great place to live if you've got $$$ and the desire to make more $$$ (walking over the next guy to get ahead). And it's not such a good place to live if you are poor because people just don't care about their fellow citizens like they do elsewhere.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Jimbo 0]

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Welcome to America people. It's a great place to live if you've got $$$ and the desire to make more $$$ (walking over the next guy to get ahead). And it's not such a good place to live if you are poor because people just don't care about their fellow citizens like they do elsewhere.

I disagree. I think that America is a great place to live. If you want to be successful, more successful than the next guy then you need ambition, and lots of it. This whole "the little guy can't succeed" business is bullshit. Life is what you make of it. Too many people seem to be under the impression that they are entitled to high paying jobs with good benefits. Well, I've got news for you, you're not. If you want the good job then do whatever it takes to get it. But don't you dare sit back, while doing nothing or not enough to get ahead, and complain that you can't get ahead, that you're stuck in a dead end job. Take your life into your own hands, where it belongs.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.