Booties

[chrizbreck 0]

So i got my A last week, and this weekend i cant jump =( so of course like any skydiver when I'm not jumping I'm thinking about jumping haha...

Anyway I am currently ordering my gear and what not and I know that i want booties on my jump suit but I am wondering if they will cause any issues if i transition to sit fly or standing... (I fall sooooo slow on my belly even when I'm folded in half with my arch breaking my back...)

[Jbag 0]

you wont use an RW suit to free fly in...its completely different designs of where and how you want drag and dont want drag. get booties for an RW suit, it will give you a shit ton more power....learn to fly it too...when you are ready to do FF, get a FF suit

IHYD

[chrizbreck 0]

yeah that was kinda how I figured it would be. I enjoy belly flying but I've stood up once or twice and that can be more fun when your alllllll aloneee

[mjosparky 3]

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yeah that was kinda how I figured it would be. I enjoy belly flying but I've stood up once or twice and that can be more fun when your alllllll aloneee

Don't jump alone.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[theonlyski 3]

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yeah that was kinda how I figured it would be. I enjoy belly flying but I've stood up once or twice and that can be more fun when your alllllll aloneee

Don't jump alone.

Sparky

I'll add to not freefly alone, especially with 26 jumps.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[mjosparky 3]

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yeah that was kinda how I figured it would be. I enjoy belly flying but I've stood up once or twice and that can be more fun when your alllllll aloneee

Don't jump alone.

Sparky

I'll add to not freefly alone, especially with 26 jumps.

Good point.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[DocPop 1]

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(I fall sooooo slow on my belly even when I'm folded in half with my arch breaking my back...)

The right suit will help you with this.

You could also ask a coach to start working with you on flying mantis which will help your range without the need to arch so hard.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[Ron 7]

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You could also ask a coach to start working with you on flying mantis which will help your range without the need to arch so hard.

The mantis will slow you down if anything. When people fly the mantis they sometimes have to add lead.

To the OP... Get the booties. It sucks to have to buy two suits to get one good one. When you get ready to FF you can get another suit.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Throttlebender 0]

Why not?

Life expands or contracts in proportion to one's courage. ~Anais Nin

[theonlyski 3]

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Why not?

Why not what? Jump alone? Because you don't learn much from a solo (as far as RW flying) because you have no stable base to judge yourself off of.

Freeflying? Well, because its easy (and common) for new freefliers to not know how fast they're going and fly in the direction of another group, maybe even catching up with them below/above them... both bad places to be.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[Throttlebender 0]

I agree. I just thought a bit of an explanation would be nice rather than simply, "Don't jump alone."

It needed to be fleshed out a bit

Life expands or contracts in proportion to one's courage. ~Anais Nin

[petejones45 0]

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Why not what? Jump alone? Because you don't learn much from a solo (as far as RW flying) because you have no stable base to judge yourself off of.

Freeflying? Well, because its easy (and common) for new freefliers to not know how fast they're going and fly in the direction of another group, maybe even catching up with them below/above them... both bad places to be.

That shouldn't be an issue if the exit order is done properly

Look out for the freefly team, Smelly Peppers. Once we get a couple years more experience we will be a force to be reckoned with in the near future! BLUES!

[theonlyski 3]

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Why not what? Jump alone? Because you don't learn much from a solo (as far as RW flying) because you have no stable base to judge yourself off of.

Freeflying? Well, because its easy (and common) for new freefliers to not know how fast they're going and fly in the direction of another group, maybe even catching up with them below/above them... both bad places to be.

That shouldn't be an issue if the exit order is done properly

I bet you that I could track straight into another group's airspace that exited with a proper interval. Add in less situation awareness and faster speeds. You do the math.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[petejones45 0]

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I bet you that I could track straight into another group's airspace that exited with a proper interval. Add in less situation awareness and faster speeds. You do the math.

the original point was about freeflying into a group not tracking. that being said, that is why tracking jumps are normally done perpendicular to jump run and wingsuiters do a "j"

Look out for the freefly team, Smelly Peppers. Once we get a couple years more experience we will be a force to be reckoned with in the near future! BLUES!

[rehmwa 2]

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To the OP... Get the booties. It sucks to have to buy two suits to get one good one. When you get ready to FF you can get another suit.

I always tell newbies - If someone is advising a no-bootie suit, they are just trying to sell you two suits. The no-bootie suit, and the one you REALLY want in a couple more months.

1 - you can roll under the booties until ready for them (frankly, if you've graduate and have a couple solos, it's time to learn booties).
2 - get the booties


For someone freeflying, that's a different suit. It's worth it to get the right suit for each discipline.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[chrizbreck 0]

I had 100% decided on buying booties when i first started skydiving haha. Everyone at the DZ supported the idea and said once i graduate and have some solos then get them for sure.

My main concern was if i happened to go into a sit or stand if i would be toasted by air funneling up the booties.

And later on I will get the right suit for FF but that's down the line anyway =)

[davelepka 4]

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the original point was about freeflying into a group not tracking. that being said, that is why tracking jumps are normally done perpendicular to jump run and wingsuiters do a "j"

Your original point was incorrect.

The idea of having RW exit before freeflyers is intended to keep the groups seperate with regards to upper level winds and freefall drfit. For this purpose the plan works quite well.

However, that plan is dependant on all jumpers falling straight down with their group. A beginner freeflyer can easily get themselves into a body position that invovles significant horizontal movement without realizing it. With no experience, and no other jumpers to reference, the newbie, if moving up or down the jumprun, could maintain this position long enough to overcome the seperation between them and the other groups.

Think carefully about all the factors in a situation before drawing a conclusion. In this case there is no harm done as this is just a discussion. If you had drawn that same conclusion, and went on a solo freefly thinking that you were safe based on the group seperation, it could have led to a collision.

[rehmwa 2]

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My main concern was if i happened to go into a sit or stand if i would be toasted by air funneling up the booties.

seems to me, if you are on an RW jump and you go into a sit or stand (on purpose or not).......

you are already toasted

(the answer to your question is - stability is easy to recover from any orientation with booties - and the action to recover stability is the same as you already know)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[petejones45 0]

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our original point was incorrect.

The idea of having RW exit before freeflyers is intended to keep the groups seperate with regards to upper level winds and freefall drfit. For this purpose the plan works quite well.

However, that plan is dependant on all jumpers falling straight down with their group. A beginner freeflyer can easily get themselves into a body position that invovles significant horizontal movement without realizing it. With no experience, and no other jumpers to reference, the newbie, if moving up or down the jumprun, could maintain this position long enough to overcome the seperation between them and the other groups.

Think carefully about all the factors in a situation before drawing a conclusion. In this case there is no harm done as this is just a discussion. If you had drawn that same conclusion, and went on a solo freefly thinking that you were safe based on the group seperation, it could have led to a collision.

perhaps, but i doubt that dzs are going to change exit order for new freeflyers.

I stand by my post, rw then freefly; biggest to smallest.


Even a guy with thousands of rw jumps can fuck up a sitflying jump. Your post is incorrect because you are targeting new jumpers.

Look out for the freefly team, Smelly Peppers. Once we get a couple years more experience we will be a force to be reckoned with in the near future! BLUES!

[chrizbreck 0]

Good point about being vertical on an RW run anyway... if i do happen to hit that position on accident i definitely must have done something wrong haha

[davelepka 4]

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Even a guy with thousands of rw jumps can fuck up a sitflying jump. Your post is incorrect because you are targeting new jumpers.

No sir, I'm targeting new freeflyers. Without any experience, or another jumper to reference, how does any new freeflyer know if they are going straight down or not?

Think about this, a large percentage of AFF level 1 students get the 'legs out' signal at some point in the jump. Now if they were not accompanied by instructors, and they assumed a good arch, but with legs up, how would they know they were backsliding? They are supposed to be belly to earth, they are facing belly to earth and stable, so they must be doing it right, at least in their own minds.

A new stiflyer, for example, knows only to try and assume an upright position. If they assume such a position, but happen to be leaning forward or back, even just slightly, this will produce horizontal movement acorss the sky. They don't know this is happening, as they don't know what it feels like to sit up straight in the nuetral position, and without another jumper to reference, they might believe they are doing it correctly, and hold that position for the entire jump.

I never said anything about changing the exit order. What I said was the new freeflyers can overcome the standard exit timing because of the possibility of unintentional horizontal movement. Standard group seperation does not account for a geat deal of horizontal movement, and as such does not ensure that a new freeflyer will remain clear of previous or later groups.

The solution is for new freeflyers to assume a heading 90 degrees off jumprun, and maintain the haeding at all times. This way, the horizontal movement (which is always forward or back sliding) will not reduce the space between them and jumpers from another group. If they should lose their heading control, they need to return to a stable position, and reset to a safe heading. If they are holding the heading and position well, they can try a 180 turn, so in case there is movement, they will back track their flight path, and not get too far off the jumprun. If there is no movement, the 180 turn is just a good drill for heading control.

I don't know you, or where you jump, but I'm trying to offer you some insight to what's really going on out there. It is not a big sky like you might think, and will 100%, for sure, have people freefalling closer to your canopy than you would like if you continue jumping. Being aware of your surroundings and the position of other jumpers will both help you to avoid falling past other canopies, and being in a place where someone might fall last yours. If you want to disagree, I could go on into further detail, but the end result will still be that I am correct in the information I am presenting.

Take it for what it's worth, I'm trying to help you out.

[petejones45 0]

I smell what you are stepping now thanks!

I jump at a cessna dropzone and only have been out of an otter a few times so i'm not really used to having a whole lot of other people in the sky

Look out for the freefly team, Smelly Peppers. Once we get a couple years more experience we will be a force to be reckoned with in the near future! BLUES!