goose491 0
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crzjp20 0
hey goose as for the my opinion thing, thats the great thing about this country, you dont have to agree with it, and i dont have to agree with yours, but i have a right to have it and a right the express it. With that said i totaly disagree with you, however i respect your opinion and i am glad you are free to have it.
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Fear is not a confession of weakness, it is an oportunity for courage.
Fear is not a confession of weakness, it is an oportunity for courage.
crzjp20 0
as for the WMD thing i want to say one fast thing.... yes we were wrong but so was every other intelegence agency includgin france, canada, germany, england, spain, and lot of others. They all said that he had them. And if bush was wrong abiout them then so was clinton.
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Fear is not a confession of weakness, it is an oportunity for courage.
Fear is not a confession of weakness, it is an oportunity for courage.
QuoteQuoteDid Bush steal your girlfriend or something?
Come on Rick! So the man doesn't like GWB. This is exactly the reason you don't see many of my political opinions on the forums... noboby responds to the body of your text if they don't agree with it... they just make stupid remarks like this.
Read what he has posted, is it not true? You can't say it doesn't relate. It's definition of character. The man has proven himself a liar.
-GWB SAID her knew wehre Iraq's WMDs were.... FACT
-GWB SAID the deficit would be small and short-term.... FACT
-GWB SAYS these men are illegals but allows them no representation so we are to take his word for it... how valuable is his word? Refer to the above two points.
Saying that John doesn't like Bush is like saying that Mt. Everest is a small hill. I've seen the liberal list of Bush's sins before. I don't think that he lied.
never pull low......unless you are
goose491 0
Do you understand that all of what you have just posted, along with all other reasons you can consider your Country to be so wonderful, beat the very concept of "Guilty by association" into the ground?
There is no "Guilty by association"... If there is, then there is nothing special about America... you are just animals... I like to think differently about you being that we are close neighboors and we 'associate' with you quite a bit.
My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!
There is no "Guilty by association"... If there is, then there is nothing special about America... you are just animals... I like to think differently about you being that we are close neighboors and we 'associate' with you quite a bit.
My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!
QuoteThey were associated with 911 and inreturn they are guilty. Did the prisionors plan it, probly not, did they do it, no, but did they support the people who did it, yes, and did they help them, yes.
Really? How do you know that? Do you know who's even being held there?
QuoteAlso you have to concider if this person was to be released would they present a clear and present danger to the United States? These people are not americans,
Obviously you don't know who's being held there. One of them is a US Citizen. Some are UK citizens, and many other countries as well.
I agree somewhat with your statement that if they are extremists that want to destroy the US and plan to take action in that regard that they should be held. But don't you think we should at least prove that's the case first?
crzjp20 0
im not sayi9ng that yall are guilty of anything i am just saying that all the intel pointed twards the fact that he had wmds. This point is hardly ever pointed out. It was the US's decission to go in to iraq, and we now have to carry the burden of the fact that we have not found WMD's. So it is on the US not canada or anyother country i was just saying that we were all wrong on the intel.
the guilt by association thing was just focused twards the terrorists at camp Xray.
the guilt by association thing was just focused twards the terrorists at camp Xray.
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Fear is not a confession of weakness, it is an oportunity for courage.
Fear is not a confession of weakness, it is an oportunity for courage.
crzjp20 0
the us citize in gitmo should be given council casue he is a citizen. Ill admit i forgot about him, but oh well. I seriously doubt that we are just keeping every average joe taliban fighter down there. we released a far number of them already and will do so again soon eough. The people who were directly involded will never be released, they weill be given a military tribunal and if found guilty they will be exicuted. i Opened a can of worms huh????
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Fear is not a confession of weakness, it is an oportunity for courage.
Fear is not a confession of weakness, it is an oportunity for courage.
billvon 2,467
.thumb.jpg.4bb795e2eaf21b8b300039a5e1ec7f92.jpg)
> Those prisoners are combatants picked up during the fight,
>possess valuable intelligence, and should be used for our purpose.
I wonder what purpose we can use the 13 year olds for?
>possess valuable intelligence, and should be used for our purpose.
I wonder what purpose we can use the 13 year olds for?
billvon 2,467
>i hate to say it like this and i know i am goign to get majorly flamed,
> but it is guilt by association. They were associated with 911 and
> inreturn they are guilty.
Uh, you realize Pat Buchanan helped fund Charles Taylor, a man who harbored Al Qaeda before and after 9/11? But he's not an Islamic male, so he is beyond suspicion. The CIA gave millions of dollars of weapons to those Islamic terrorists in the 80's. We sold Hussein chemical weapons and the helicopters he used to gas the Kurds. There's plenty of associations to be had.
> These people are not americans . . .
Some are. Look up "Jose Padilla."
>They are extremist and if they can not change then then need to be caged. My opinion.....
So put em on trial, and if they are guilty put them in prison for life or execute them. I understand you're pissed off, but that doesn't give you (or anyone) the right to violate our constitution.
> but it is guilt by association. They were associated with 911 and
> inreturn they are guilty.
Uh, you realize Pat Buchanan helped fund Charles Taylor, a man who harbored Al Qaeda before and after 9/11? But he's not an Islamic male, so he is beyond suspicion. The CIA gave millions of dollars of weapons to those Islamic terrorists in the 80's. We sold Hussein chemical weapons and the helicopters he used to gas the Kurds. There's plenty of associations to be had.
> These people are not americans . . .
Some are. Look up "Jose Padilla."
>They are extremist and if they can not change then then need to be caged. My opinion.....
So put em on trial, and if they are guilty put them in prison for life or execute them. I understand you're pissed off, but that doesn't give you (or anyone) the right to violate our constitution.
billvon 2,467
>yes we were wrong but so was every other intelegence agency . . .
The UN arms inspectors and the IAEA were right; they said they couldn't find any, and that they could show conclusively if he had or did not have WMD's within a few months. We didn't want to wait.
The UN arms inspectors and the IAEA were right; they said they couldn't find any, and that they could show conclusively if he had or did not have WMD's within a few months. We didn't want to wait.
crzjp20 0
Quote>So put em on trial, and if they are guilty put them in prison for life or execute them. I understand you're pissed off, but that doesn't give you (or anyone) the right to violate our constitution.
I say this again and say and i tread lightly here... these people are not americans they do not have the civil rights ad liberites that we do. Will pediah i hope so or else his conviction will be over turned.
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Fear is not a confession of weakness, it is an oportunity for courage.
Fear is not a confession of weakness, it is an oportunity for courage.
pajarito 0
A 13 year old can carry a rifle and shoot an American just like someone my age. A 13 year old can blow himself or herself up and kill Americans in the same way. That 13 year old combatant has a superior giving him/her orders. Who's to say that 13 year old doesn't have valuable intel that might be used to save American lives. Unconventional warfare isn't like clean-cut, straight forward, conventional war with clear objectives. The enemy comes in all shapes, sizes, and ages.
SkyDekker 1,150
QuoteI've seen the liberal list of Bush's sins before. I don't think that he lied.
so he does know where they are then?
Could you please enlighten me then and let me know why he would not direct his troops to that location?
Rainbo 0
My simplistic mind has to ask a simplistic question. It may take a second to get to it.
FACT: Iraq had WMD. HE used them against the Iraians and the Kurds. They were there. We saw them in his militery parades.
FACT: Not all of these weapons were accounted for to the UN. Not all were desatroyed. Not all had a complete paper trail.
Fact: At the end of the first war Saddam began hiding these weapons. Acknowledged to be true by the UN.
Question: Where are they now?
I am not trying to be a smart ass here. Just trying to put somecommon sense into the discussion, as opposed to dissing the pres for political reasons.
Rainbo
FACT: Iraq had WMD. HE used them against the Iraians and the Kurds. They were there. We saw them in his militery parades.
FACT: Not all of these weapons were accounted for to the UN. Not all were desatroyed. Not all had a complete paper trail.
Fact: At the end of the first war Saddam began hiding these weapons. Acknowledged to be true by the UN.
Question: Where are they now?
I am not trying to be a smart ass here. Just trying to put somecommon sense into the discussion, as opposed to dissing the pres for political reasons.
Rainbo
Rainbo
TheSpeedTriple - Speed is everything
"Blessed are those who can give without remembering, and take without forgetting."
TheSpeedTriple - Speed is everything
"Blessed are those who can give without remembering, and take without forgetting."
crzjp20 0
thats my fear... where are they now..... in the hands of terorists? maybe, on there way to the US for an atack on a major city? maybe. In another country with simular ideas of destruction of the US? maybe. I dont know and that scares me.
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Fear is not a confession of weakness, it is an oportunity for courage.
Fear is not a confession of weakness, it is an oportunity for courage.
billvon 2,467
>these people are not americans they do not have the civil rights ad
> liberites that we do. Will pediah i hope so or else his conviction will
> be over turned.
Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.
Amendment VII
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
> liberites that we do. Will pediah i hope so or else his conviction will
> be over turned.
Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.
Amendment VII
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
pajarito 0
Common sense is a beutiful thing! 
crzjp20 0
once again i say the same thing those are the bill of rights for the people of the united states. Citizens, not some terrorist who was caught during a war. we are dealing with a differet set of laws here... UCJM, Genevia convention, and so on not the constitution of the UNited States.
im off to class be back in a few hours
im off to class be back in a few hours
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Fear is not a confession of weakness, it is an oportunity for courage.
Fear is not a confession of weakness, it is an oportunity for courage.
billvon 2,467
>FACT: Iraq had WMD. HE used them against the Iraians and the
>Kurds. They were there. We saw them in his militery parades.
We know that; we sold them to him.
>FACT: Not all of these weapons were accounted for to the UN. Not all
>were desatroyed. Not all had a complete paper trail.
Well, we did bomb the crap out of him pretty continuously, and as I recall, our bombing campaigns were not told to avoid the filing cabinets with the WMD records. Think you could prove that _we_ have accounted for all our WMD's if the records had been stored in the WTC?
>Question: Where are they now?
To answer that, you'd have to inspect the country end to end. We had a program in place that was doing just that; it was taking longer than we wanted so we invaded. The danger was that UNMOVIC would _not_ find WMD's, and then we would have no credible reason to invade - and then where would we be?
>Kurds. They were there. We saw them in his militery parades.
We know that; we sold them to him.
>FACT: Not all of these weapons were accounted for to the UN. Not all
>were desatroyed. Not all had a complete paper trail.
Well, we did bomb the crap out of him pretty continuously, and as I recall, our bombing campaigns were not told to avoid the filing cabinets with the WMD records. Think you could prove that _we_ have accounted for all our WMD's if the records had been stored in the WTC?
>Question: Where are they now?
To answer that, you'd have to inspect the country end to end. We had a program in place that was doing just that; it was taking longer than we wanted so we invaded. The danger was that UNMOVIC would _not_ find WMD's, and then we would have no credible reason to invade - and then where would we be?
billvon 2,467
>Citizens, not some terrorist who was caught during a war.
Can you find the word "citizen" or "american" in any of the above amendments? If not, do you propose to redefine the constitution of the US according to your fears?
>we are dealing with a differet set of laws here... UCJM, Genevia
>convention, and so on not the constitution of the UNited States.
Ah. So you would be in favor of affording the Guantanamo detainees POW status, per the Geneva Convention? I will agree with you there. Either charge them with crimes or say they are POW's - and treat them accordingly.
Can you find the word "citizen" or "american" in any of the above amendments? If not, do you propose to redefine the constitution of the US according to your fears?
>we are dealing with a differet set of laws here... UCJM, Genevia
>convention, and so on not the constitution of the UNited States.
Ah. So you would be in favor of affording the Guantanamo detainees POW status, per the Geneva Convention? I will agree with you there. Either charge them with crimes or say they are POW's - and treat them accordingly.
Rainbo 0
The point is there are a lot of people who prefer to throw the term liar out there in reference to the pres. I am not a republican, but I took an oath many years ago that I still hold dear to my heart. I also was taught to respect people, especially those that hold that office.
I do not agree with everything that has gone on. But on this subject I believe that people think it is easier for their agande to stick their head in the sand and ignore the FACTS. But I do not think that it is appropriate to use that term in reference to this subject. So until someone can prove that they are not there to call the pres a liar is unjustified.
MY OPINION.
Rainbo
I do not agree with everything that has gone on. But on this subject I believe that people think it is easier for their agande to stick their head in the sand and ignore the FACTS. But I do not think that it is appropriate to use that term in reference to this subject. So until someone can prove that they are not there to call the pres a liar is unjustified.
MY OPINION.
Rainbo
Rainbo
TheSpeedTriple - Speed is everything
"Blessed are those who can give without remembering, and take without forgetting."
TheSpeedTriple - Speed is everything
"Blessed are those who can give without remembering, and take without forgetting."
billvon 2,467
>The point is there are a lot of people who prefer to throw the term
> liar out there in reference to the pres. I am not a republican, but I
> took an oath many years ago that I still hold dear to my heart. I
> also was taught to respect people, especially those that hold that office.
I think it's part of the every-four-year escalation of attacks. Iran-Contra got a lot of "liar!" claims. The Lewinsky saga was a field day for opponents of Clinton. Now we have a president who says that we know where the WMD's are, and then after the war says we found WMD's. You can charitably describe that as saying things that aren't true, I suppose. Although "liar! liar!" makes for better press (and gets the other side more riled up.) I've been guilty of doing that too; I should stick to the "saying things that aren't true" which is more accurate.
>So until someone can prove that they are not there to call the pres a
>liar is unjustified.
Well:
A. you generally can't prove a negative
B. people are already saying that OK, there are no WMD's, but that was just a mistake, not a lie.
I also think that it will be ironic if the only WMD's to come out of Iraq is the uranium that we left unguarded after we took over one of his nuclear research labs.
> liar out there in reference to the pres. I am not a republican, but I
> took an oath many years ago that I still hold dear to my heart. I
> also was taught to respect people, especially those that hold that office.
I think it's part of the every-four-year escalation of attacks. Iran-Contra got a lot of "liar!" claims. The Lewinsky saga was a field day for opponents of Clinton. Now we have a president who says that we know where the WMD's are, and then after the war says we found WMD's. You can charitably describe that as saying things that aren't true, I suppose. Although "liar! liar!" makes for better press (and gets the other side more riled up.) I've been guilty of doing that too; I should stick to the "saying things that aren't true" which is more accurate.
>So until someone can prove that they are not there to call the pres a
>liar is unjustified.
Well:
A. you generally can't prove a negative
B. people are already saying that OK, there are no WMD's, but that was just a mistake, not a lie.
I also think that it will be ironic if the only WMD's to come out of Iraq is the uranium that we left unguarded after we took over one of his nuclear research labs.
SkyDekker 1,150
QuoteMy simplistic mind has to ask a simplistic question. It may take a second to get to it.
FACT: Iraq had WMD. HE used them against the Iraians and the Kurds. They were there. We saw them in his militery parades.
FACT: Not all of these weapons were accounted for to the UN. Not all were desatroyed. Not all had a complete paper trail.
Fact: At the end of the first war Saddam began hiding these weapons. Acknowledged to be true by the UN.
Question: Where are they now?
I am not trying to be a smart ass here. Just trying to put somecommon sense into the discussion, as opposed to dissing the pres for political reasons.
Interesting report in the USA today this morning (I can't find it on their website, though it was on the front page of my copy this morning
) Report finds that Iraq did not have WMDs for pretty much the last decade. This is based on "independend" reasearch into the findings by the weapons inspectors and the weapons team after the Iraqi invasion. The program was dormant.
Come on Rick! So the man doesn't like GWB. This is exactly the reason you don't see many of my political opinions on the forums... noboby responds to the body of your text if they don't agree with it... they just make stupid remarks like this.
Read what he has posted, is it not true? You can't say it doesn't relate. It's definition of character. The man has proven himself a liar.
-GWB SAID her knew wehre Iraq's WMDs were.... FACT
-GWB SAID the deficit would be small and short-term.... FACT
-GWB SAYS these men are illegals but allows them no representation so we are to take his word for it... how valuable is his word? Refer to the above two points.
My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!
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