PLFXpert 0 #76 September 2, 2004 Quoteif we didnt have factories and we did it the animal way it still would not be ok to you. I hear you on this, conundrum. I am veggie-tarian for the most part (I eat salmon) but only b/c of the inhumane treatment of all farm-raised animals. If we did it "the animal way" or just instilled some SEVERE new laws regarding humane treatment of farm animals, then I would not have a problem with it. There's a difference between animal WELFARE and animal RIGHTS. I am an animal WELFARE activist. I think it was Switzerland, or one of the countries near it, that has instilled the BEST animal welfare laws in the world. I read about it in my "animal times" from PETA. I wish we could follow their great example.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 4 #77 September 2, 2004 "I never tried to tell other people to become vegetarians." "Instead of just saying, 'Yeah, it is wrong to eat meat, but I'm still giong to,'" Telling someone it's wrong to do something is basically the same thing as telling them not to do it. And it being 'wrong' is your opinion - which I don't agree with. There's nothing 'wrong' about it, and any argument or silly quote you can come up with can be used by either side. If you don't want to eat meat for your own reasons and beliefs, that's fine - but don't try to convince me that you're right, and eating meat is 'wrong' -- I'm not going to tell you you're 'wrong' for not eating meat.it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 256 #78 September 2, 2004 Quoteand I refuse to by anything but fish, or any Sorry to jump on this - and i eat meat etc, but why should fish be any different to land animals. This strikes me as mixed morals? I have vegetarian friends who are venomously anti meat - and go fishing Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #79 September 2, 2004 QuoteYou said you are still going to eat fish for a while..... you don't think what we do to fish is cruel? Yes, I do, which is why I'll eventually stop eating it. In the meantime, I will start looking into vegetarian products and see what kinds of choices I have. QuoteYou are ignoring the fact that you even said if we didnt have factories and we did it the animal way it still would not be ok to you. No, it would still not be okay for me to eat meat since I don't need to kill anything to live. What's your point? What I think is "wrong" to do to animals, while it applies to other humans, I'm not actually sitting here shouting, "DON'T EAT MEAT!!!!" In my opinion, things would be better if people ate less meat, just like things would be better if we weren't in a war, watched less tv, etc etc etc.There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #80 September 2, 2004 non-farm raised fish is a little different b/c at least they live a normal life until they're captured and once they are, the death is fairly instant--they're not kept alive and mis-treated until they get to the butcher. I do NOT buy farm-raised fish. And, I DO have issues w/ fishing nets, but for the most part, salmon doesn't factor in to that b/c of where the majority are caught is not where sea turtles or seals, etc. are.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #81 September 2, 2004 Isn't it amazing that you decide to make a positive change in your life and environment that will do no harm at all to others and you get put on trial. You can maintain a well balanced diet without eating meat. There will be a transition period where your body is adjusting. Be sure to watch your energy levels and what you are eating. I've seen people get very fatigued because their diet was not well balanced after they quit eating meat. I used to hate tofu until I got a certain kind and began cooking it in small pieces. The tofu will absorb the spices you cook it with. This has been very helpful to me in gaining a taste for it. Congratulations on making positive steps in your life - whatever they may be. You will feel better not only physically, but mentally and emotionally as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Vallerina 2 #82 September 2, 2004 QuoteIf you don't want to eat meat for your own reasons and beliefs, that's fine - but don't try to convince me that you're right, and eating meat is 'wrong' People asked me why I didn't want to eat meat. I said that I don't need to take the life of something else so that I can live. It is wrong for me. QuoteThere's nothing 'wrong' about it, and any argument or silly quote you can come up with can be used by either side So, it is okay that animals are being inseminated by machines and stabbed by machines? All my life I knew this was "wrong." Is it wrong for people to kill elephants for their tusks? Is it wrong for people to kill seals for their skin? Etc etc. Are these things wrong? I just wish people would be a little more open minded....There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites scottbre 0 #83 September 2, 2004 Better sell your Homer Simpson Helmet (you still have that?). Wouldn't want others to think that you idolize someone with such a strong preference for eating animal flesh... "Your mother's full of stupidjuice!" My Art Project Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Stumpy 256 #84 September 2, 2004 Fair enough - i take it your objection is in the treatment of the animals rather than the morals of eating animals per se? However being dragged out of the sea by your gills jammed into a net with hundreds of other fish to lie gasping for air on a deck until you can't breathe any more doesn't strike me as being much more humane than a trailer ride and a steel bolt to the neck.... (I know thats an over simplification but i always think this is a slightly strange argument) Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Vallerina 2 #85 September 2, 2004 QuoteIsn't it amazing that you decide to make a positive change in your life and environment that will do no harm at all to others and you get put on trial I know! Freeflybella warned me about this, though! QuoteBe sure to watch your energy levels and what you are eating. I've seen people get very fatigued because their diet was not well balanced after they quit eating meat. Yeah, one of my friends in high school stopped having her period when she became vegetarian. She pretty much only ate candy...not the best thing to do.... What are other good calcium/iron sources besides animal products?There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #86 September 2, 2004 QuoteMy advice? Don't give up red meat. Ditto.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelel01 1 #87 September 2, 2004 QuoteIs it wrong for people to kill elephants for their tusks? That's different for a number of reasons. One, it's wasteful . . . two, it almost wiped them out. Anyway, Seth was right about one thing . . . don't assume that all of us meat eaters, "know that we're wrong but want to do it anyway". I know nothing of the sort, and that is what you said. But as far as the rest of this goes, I really don't care. I would actually love to be a vegetarian for health reasons, but I just can't give up meat. I have no moral issues with eating it, though. Kelly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sunshine 2 #88 September 2, 2004 QuoteI just wish people would be a little more open minded.... Give it up Val. You make a post and ask for advice and it quickly turned into a stupid debate about morals. Do what you want and stick to your morals. The rest of the fuckers have no right to judge you or tell you what to do. I personally can't give up meat cause i love it too much, but you go for what you believe in. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kramer 0 #89 September 2, 2004 QuoteMy main concern is when I have my period, my body is weaker and needs protein and iron. Eat a lot of nuts and eggs, if you don't consider eggs a meat (which they kind of are). I don't see why you couldn't eat eggs if you're doing this because of the killing of animals. If you're dropping meat because you just don't want to eat any meat at all....then I guess eggs are out too. Also, although it's primarily only known as something that guys who are weightlifting take, go to GNC and pick up some Whey Protein Powder. Like 20 or so grams of protien per serving, which would definetly help supplement your diet. Good luck. And remember: For every animal you don't eat, I'm going to eat three. The FAKE KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites scottbre 0 #90 September 2, 2004 QuoteWhat are other good calcium/iron sources besides animal products? Calcium and iron suppliments. "Your mother's full of stupidjuice!" My Art Project Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Vallerina 2 #91 September 2, 2004 You rock! Just for that, I think I'll give you your shoe back! QuoteGive it up Val. You make a post and ask for advice and it quickly turned into a stupid debate about morals. That's the funniest part about the whole thing....There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnnyD 0 #92 September 2, 2004 QuoteWhat are other good calcium/iron sources besides animal products? Honestly, I don't know. I eat a lot of cottage cheese, yougurt, ice cream, eggs, etc. Definately look into upping your calcium and iron intake through supplements (vitamins). I take the calciums with magnesium, which your body needs to absorb the calcium. I take additional calcium for the occasional crash landing. Iron is found in leafy green vegetables such as spinach. I would recommend additional iron supplements as well, especially for a woman. edit to add: http://www.saveonsupplements.com/ This is a good site for supplements. My wife likes it - she usually drinks a fruit/protein shake on the way to work in the morning. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Conundrum 1 #93 September 2, 2004 Quote No, it would still not be okay for me to eat meat since I don't need to kill anything to live. What's your point? What I think is "wrong" to do to animals, while it applies to other humans, I'm not actually sitting here shouting, "DON'T EAT MEAT!!!!" In my opinion, things would be better if people ate less meat, just like things would be better if we weren't in a war, watched less tv, etc etc etc. lol, you keep saying the same thing withouth actually answering the question. We all know you think it's wrong for you to eat meat, what I'm asking, is why its ok for ANIMALS but not humans. Or why your reason is that it's cruel the way wwe kill them, yet even if we did it the same way an animal would... that's still not ok with you. If it's ok for an animal to do it to another animal ( which you have repeatedly stated by saying they don't have pig factories ) why wouldn't it be ok for you to do it the same way? Humans are animals too. QuoteGive it up Val. You make a post and ask for advice and it quickly turned into a stupid debate about morals. That's the funniest part about the whole thing.... And just so you know, I'm not putting you on trial, Im not saying what you are doing is wrong, Im not saying it's stupid and I'm not debating. Im simply trying to understand why you think the way you do, and I'm asking questions. If you are taking that as being on the stand then I'm sorry. Either way, don't eat meat, do what you believe, that's fine with me; it doesn't change the way I think, just like I won't change the way you think. ( not that I was trying to ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wildblue 4 #94 September 2, 2004 QuoteSo, it is okay that animals are being inseminated by machines and stabbed by machines? All my life I knew this was "wrong." Not 'wrong'. Necessary to be efficent/effective enough to meet depend. Again, we've populated the earth beyond its means. And you're also assuming animals have feelings and rights. If animals have feelings, then we shouldn't have them as pets - that's wrong. QuoteIs it wrong for people to kill elephants for their tusks? Is it wrong for people to kill seals for their skin? Etc etc. Are these things wrong? No, not until it got to the point that it was taking them off the planet completely. It's a resource that served a purpose, you're going to do damage collecting it - I don't see it as wrong at all until you do irrepairable damage.it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflybella 0 #95 September 2, 2004 Quotethere's too many humans on the planet - we have to 'mass produce' what we consume. We do it with veggies, we do it with meat. This is wrong information. For every 7 pounds of grain fed to livestock, we yield one pound of meat. Not a terribly efficient plan for 'feeding the over-populated world' Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Stumpy 256 #96 September 2, 2004 Huh? But thats the same in any food chain. there is loss of mass all the way up. or maybe i missed the point?Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #97 September 2, 2004 QuoteI don't pretend to understand the emotions of animals (including humans.) But, they do exist. Acctually some researchers and animal behaviorists have decided that's not true. (not that I believe them)---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #98 September 2, 2004 QuoteSome animals are carnivores. We are not. True. However stand in front of the mirror and counting from your front two teeth, look at the 3rd and 4th to the right and left. Evidence enough for me.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hookitt 0 #99 September 2, 2004 Wow val, they're badgering the hell out of you Look at the digestive tract on a tiger. It's about 5 feet long and very acidic. Look at the digestive tract on a human or a gorilla. It's about 30 feet long and very much less acidic. Tigers are designed to eat meat. Humans seem to have adapted to it but it's primary design is not carnivore. The Fang theory doesn't hold up either. Gorillas don't eat meat and look at the fangs on them! Our jaws are not designed to crush like say.. a tiger, or a wolf, or hyena... etc. Our Jaws are designed to grind. Humans are not predators by nature. Humans are grazers. We raise crops, or pick them from bushes or trees, or take them from the ground. Sure humans hunt, and have hunted for a gazillion years but primarily, humans are grazers. I won't argue this subject because it will just go in circles and I sure don't have the time and resources to argue effectively. Have a good day! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hookitt 0 #100 September 2, 2004 Quotelook at the 3rd and 4th to the right and left. Evidence enough for me. As posted directly above, Gorillas are not meat eaters. Look at the fangs on them! Still evidence enough? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 4 of 6 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Vallerina 2 #82 September 2, 2004 QuoteIf you don't want to eat meat for your own reasons and beliefs, that's fine - but don't try to convince me that you're right, and eating meat is 'wrong' People asked me why I didn't want to eat meat. I said that I don't need to take the life of something else so that I can live. It is wrong for me. QuoteThere's nothing 'wrong' about it, and any argument or silly quote you can come up with can be used by either side So, it is okay that animals are being inseminated by machines and stabbed by machines? All my life I knew this was "wrong." Is it wrong for people to kill elephants for their tusks? Is it wrong for people to kill seals for their skin? Etc etc. Are these things wrong? I just wish people would be a little more open minded....There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottbre 0 #83 September 2, 2004 Better sell your Homer Simpson Helmet (you still have that?). Wouldn't want others to think that you idolize someone with such a strong preference for eating animal flesh... "Your mother's full of stupidjuice!" My Art Project Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 256 #84 September 2, 2004 Fair enough - i take it your objection is in the treatment of the animals rather than the morals of eating animals per se? However being dragged out of the sea by your gills jammed into a net with hundreds of other fish to lie gasping for air on a deck until you can't breathe any more doesn't strike me as being much more humane than a trailer ride and a steel bolt to the neck.... (I know thats an over simplification but i always think this is a slightly strange argument) Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #85 September 2, 2004 QuoteIsn't it amazing that you decide to make a positive change in your life and environment that will do no harm at all to others and you get put on trial I know! Freeflybella warned me about this, though! QuoteBe sure to watch your energy levels and what you are eating. I've seen people get very fatigued because their diet was not well balanced after they quit eating meat. Yeah, one of my friends in high school stopped having her period when she became vegetarian. She pretty much only ate candy...not the best thing to do.... What are other good calcium/iron sources besides animal products?There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #86 September 2, 2004 QuoteMy advice? Don't give up red meat. Ditto.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelel01 1 #87 September 2, 2004 QuoteIs it wrong for people to kill elephants for their tusks? That's different for a number of reasons. One, it's wasteful . . . two, it almost wiped them out. Anyway, Seth was right about one thing . . . don't assume that all of us meat eaters, "know that we're wrong but want to do it anyway". I know nothing of the sort, and that is what you said. But as far as the rest of this goes, I really don't care. I would actually love to be a vegetarian for health reasons, but I just can't give up meat. I have no moral issues with eating it, though. Kelly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #88 September 2, 2004 QuoteI just wish people would be a little more open minded.... Give it up Val. You make a post and ask for advice and it quickly turned into a stupid debate about morals. Do what you want and stick to your morals. The rest of the fuckers have no right to judge you or tell you what to do. I personally can't give up meat cause i love it too much, but you go for what you believe in. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kramer 0 #89 September 2, 2004 QuoteMy main concern is when I have my period, my body is weaker and needs protein and iron. Eat a lot of nuts and eggs, if you don't consider eggs a meat (which they kind of are). I don't see why you couldn't eat eggs if you're doing this because of the killing of animals. If you're dropping meat because you just don't want to eat any meat at all....then I guess eggs are out too. Also, although it's primarily only known as something that guys who are weightlifting take, go to GNC and pick up some Whey Protein Powder. Like 20 or so grams of protien per serving, which would definetly help supplement your diet. Good luck. And remember: For every animal you don't eat, I'm going to eat three. The FAKE KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottbre 0 #90 September 2, 2004 QuoteWhat are other good calcium/iron sources besides animal products? Calcium and iron suppliments. "Your mother's full of stupidjuice!" My Art Project Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #91 September 2, 2004 You rock! Just for that, I think I'll give you your shoe back! QuoteGive it up Val. You make a post and ask for advice and it quickly turned into a stupid debate about morals. That's the funniest part about the whole thing....There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #92 September 2, 2004 QuoteWhat are other good calcium/iron sources besides animal products? Honestly, I don't know. I eat a lot of cottage cheese, yougurt, ice cream, eggs, etc. Definately look into upping your calcium and iron intake through supplements (vitamins). I take the calciums with magnesium, which your body needs to absorb the calcium. I take additional calcium for the occasional crash landing. Iron is found in leafy green vegetables such as spinach. I would recommend additional iron supplements as well, especially for a woman. edit to add: http://www.saveonsupplements.com/ This is a good site for supplements. My wife likes it - she usually drinks a fruit/protein shake on the way to work in the morning. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Conundrum 1 #93 September 2, 2004 Quote No, it would still not be okay for me to eat meat since I don't need to kill anything to live. What's your point? What I think is "wrong" to do to animals, while it applies to other humans, I'm not actually sitting here shouting, "DON'T EAT MEAT!!!!" In my opinion, things would be better if people ate less meat, just like things would be better if we weren't in a war, watched less tv, etc etc etc. lol, you keep saying the same thing withouth actually answering the question. We all know you think it's wrong for you to eat meat, what I'm asking, is why its ok for ANIMALS but not humans. Or why your reason is that it's cruel the way wwe kill them, yet even if we did it the same way an animal would... that's still not ok with you. If it's ok for an animal to do it to another animal ( which you have repeatedly stated by saying they don't have pig factories ) why wouldn't it be ok for you to do it the same way? Humans are animals too. QuoteGive it up Val. You make a post and ask for advice and it quickly turned into a stupid debate about morals. That's the funniest part about the whole thing.... And just so you know, I'm not putting you on trial, Im not saying what you are doing is wrong, Im not saying it's stupid and I'm not debating. Im simply trying to understand why you think the way you do, and I'm asking questions. If you are taking that as being on the stand then I'm sorry. Either way, don't eat meat, do what you believe, that's fine with me; it doesn't change the way I think, just like I won't change the way you think. ( not that I was trying to ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 4 #94 September 2, 2004 QuoteSo, it is okay that animals are being inseminated by machines and stabbed by machines? All my life I knew this was "wrong." Not 'wrong'. Necessary to be efficent/effective enough to meet depend. Again, we've populated the earth beyond its means. And you're also assuming animals have feelings and rights. If animals have feelings, then we shouldn't have them as pets - that's wrong. QuoteIs it wrong for people to kill elephants for their tusks? Is it wrong for people to kill seals for their skin? Etc etc. Are these things wrong? No, not until it got to the point that it was taking them off the planet completely. It's a resource that served a purpose, you're going to do damage collecting it - I don't see it as wrong at all until you do irrepairable damage.it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflybella 0 #95 September 2, 2004 Quotethere's too many humans on the planet - we have to 'mass produce' what we consume. We do it with veggies, we do it with meat. This is wrong information. For every 7 pounds of grain fed to livestock, we yield one pound of meat. Not a terribly efficient plan for 'feeding the over-populated world' Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 256 #96 September 2, 2004 Huh? But thats the same in any food chain. there is loss of mass all the way up. or maybe i missed the point?Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #97 September 2, 2004 QuoteI don't pretend to understand the emotions of animals (including humans.) But, they do exist. Acctually some researchers and animal behaviorists have decided that's not true. (not that I believe them)---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #98 September 2, 2004 QuoteSome animals are carnivores. We are not. True. However stand in front of the mirror and counting from your front two teeth, look at the 3rd and 4th to the right and left. Evidence enough for me.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #99 September 2, 2004 Wow val, they're badgering the hell out of you Look at the digestive tract on a tiger. It's about 5 feet long and very acidic. Look at the digestive tract on a human or a gorilla. It's about 30 feet long and very much less acidic. Tigers are designed to eat meat. Humans seem to have adapted to it but it's primary design is not carnivore. The Fang theory doesn't hold up either. Gorillas don't eat meat and look at the fangs on them! Our jaws are not designed to crush like say.. a tiger, or a wolf, or hyena... etc. Our Jaws are designed to grind. Humans are not predators by nature. Humans are grazers. We raise crops, or pick them from bushes or trees, or take them from the ground. Sure humans hunt, and have hunted for a gazillion years but primarily, humans are grazers. I won't argue this subject because it will just go in circles and I sure don't have the time and resources to argue effectively. Have a good day! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #100 September 2, 2004 Quotelook at the 3rd and 4th to the right and left. Evidence enough for me. As posted directly above, Gorillas are not meat eaters. Look at the fangs on them! Still evidence enough? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
