BobbyR1990 0 #1 November 26, 2009 The mirage container (M2) i am looking fits like this: PD Reserve 143 Optimal Optimum 160 Optimal Sorry if this sounds stupid but would it be impossible to fit a pd reserve 160 into this container? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #2 November 26, 2009 yes, it would be near impossible, and certainly unsafe and very un-pretty looking. yes, following last few years of threads, the Optimum packs smaller than PDR. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobbyR1990 0 #3 November 26, 2009 Sounds good, thank you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #4 November 26, 2009 Specifically, I'm not sure if one could shoe-horn a PD Reserve 160 into a Mirage M2, but the mfgr recommendations are usually pretty good. So, if they're saying the biggest PD Reserve that will fit in that container is a PD-R 143 and the biggest Optimum that will fit is a Optimum 160, then they're probably about right. You do realize that PD Reserves and Optimum reserves are both made by Performance Designs? Also, the Optimum was specifically engineered using a lower bulk fabric so, size for size, it will pack up smaller than traditional PD Reserve. Quote The Optimum Reserve is now offered in sizes ranging from 99 to 253 square feet. It is made from a new low permeability, low bulk fabric available exclusively from Performance Designs. We’ve combined this fabric with special aerodynamics and extensive reinforcing to create great strength, better performance, and a far smaller pack volume for a given size. The Optimums are rated for maximum exit weights ranging from 220 pound to as much as 300 pounds! The Optimum has successfully been drop-tested at weights and speeds considerably higher than those required for FAA certification according to TSO C23d, the highest standard to date. The Optimum flies and lands far more like a main parachute too. All this and also provides a more powerful flare, by a wide margin, of any reserve we have ever tried. http://www.performancedesigns.com/products.asp?product=op Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobbyR1990 0 #5 November 26, 2009 Yeah i figured what they said was right but i wanted to double check, and I know PD makes both of the reserves the only reason i was curious was that the PD Reserve is cheaper and from what i've seen people aren't sure when the optimum is going to be available to buy again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #6 November 26, 2009 Ah, I see. PD is having some TSO issues with the FAA vs. their larger Optimum Reserves (160-253). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobbyR1990 0 #7 November 26, 2009 QuoteAh, I see. PD is having some TSO issues with the FAA vs. their larger Optimum Reserves (160-253). Yeah, im hoping it gets solved soon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #8 November 26, 2009 Do you know how small a PDR 143 is? If you are more than 150 lb. out the door it is probably not the reserve for you right now. http://www.performancedesigns.com/products.asp?product=pr SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeatlast 0 #9 November 26, 2009 I would definately go for the biggest reserve that you can (sensibly) get in there. The larger Optimum is not available at the moment but there are still a couple of other low volume reserves out there on the market. Speak to Paratec (www.paratec.de) or Basik (www.basik.fr) and they will be able to give you the details of your local dealer. Regards James Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deyan 31 #10 November 26, 2009 Quote The larger Optimum is not available at the moment but there are still a couple of other low volume reserves out there on the market. Speak to Paratec (www.paratec.de) or Basik (www.basik.fr) and they will be able to give you the details of your local dealer. Regards James The modern skydiving is more and more about the fashion.If somebody is waiting 1 year for a bigger Optimum,he will wait another year or two.Even though they are other good reserves on the market available NOW. They are just not build by PD"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeatlast 0 #11 November 26, 2009 Quote Quote The larger Optimum is not available at the moment but there are still a couple of other low volume reserves out there on the market. Speak to Paratec (www.paratec.de) or Basik (www.basik.fr) and they will be able to give you the details of your local dealer. Regards James The modern skydiving is more and more about the fashion.If somebody is waiting 1 year for a bigger Optimum,he will wait another year or two.Even though they are other good reserves on the market available NOW. They are just not build by PD P - Who? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerpaul 1 #12 November 26, 2009 QuoteThe mirage container (M2) i am looking fits like this: PD Reserve 143 Optimal Optimum 160 Optimal Sorry if this sounds stupid but would it be impossible to fit a pd reserve 160 into this container? In another thread you said you are 5'11", 155 lbs. That puts you at about 175+ out the door, maybe more. Don't cheat on this. It is too important. If anything, overestimate your weight. Consider, with your build, you might be wearing weights soon. Think about what you might weigh out the door with those weights on. Bearing all this in mind, I wonder if this rig will be too small for you at this stage of the game. Don't let the tail wag the dog here. Don't fit your needs to the available rigs. Be realistic with how big your canopies should be to safely start your jumping career. And wait for the right rig to come along. (Is your profile current? 35 jumps total? Is this your first rig?) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #13 November 27, 2009 Quoteabout 175+ out the door, maybe more you might be wearing weights soon. Is this your first rig?) Don't fit your needs to the available rigs It sounds more like a PD 176R to me. Also, what size main does an M2 hold? If it can only fit a 143 reserve, I can't imagine that anything bigger than a 150 could fit in there. I wonder if this guy already bought the container? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #14 November 27, 2009 what about a speed170 reserve? says here it is tso'd... "It is certified under JTSO and FAA TSO C 23d and manufactured under the tightest QC Standard for parachutes known today: EASA Part 21." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobbyR1990 0 #15 November 27, 2009 I'm definitely buying the bigger reserve, I had no intention of buying a 143 i was just wondering if a 160 PDR would fit because it is cheaper. But I can deal with the price for a bigger reserve. I did not buy anything yet. And I am not buying until the summer when I have more money but I'm trying to figure out now how much I need for everything. And I'm not changing my needs to a container. I made a list of the sizes I want and I'm going from there. I realize the container is small but I read in a previous thread that someone easily packed a ZPX Pilot 168 into a rig made for a pilot 132. I have 35 jumps and i weigh 150lbs now. I have about 15 jumps on a 168/170. I do appreciate all your concerns though, its not often you find that people online care about the safety of others Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chubba 0 #16 November 27, 2009 Quote I realize the container is small but I read in a previous thread that someone easily packed a ZPX Pilot 168 into a rig made for a pilot 132. Make sure YOU can pack it comfortably. It often sounds good on paper, but buying a tight fitting canopy/container can really piss you off for the next 12+ months. Took me over 100 packjobs on my first rig (very tight 170) before it wasn't a massive ordeal. Really hampered my ability to crank out the jumps and in hindsight I should have gone for something easier to pack. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobbyR1990 0 #17 November 28, 2009 QuoteQuote I realize the container is small but I read in a previous thread that someone easily packed a ZPX Pilot 168 into a rig made for a pilot 132. Make sure YOU can pack it comfortably. It often sounds good on paper, but buying a tight fitting canopy/container can really piss you off for the next 12+ months. Took me over 100 packjobs on my first rig (very tight 170) before it wasn't a massive ordeal. Really hampered my ability to crank out the jumps and in hindsight I should have gone for something easier to pack. Thats a good idea. I work as a packer at my DZ and packed some pretty tight canopies so i should be able to but its always smart to make sure before you buy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chubba 0 #18 November 28, 2009 You have a good attitude, keep reading/researching and make sure you double check everything with your instructors. Stick with the 170 for your first main if your instructors have put you on a 170 and it's treating you well, you don't want to load over 1.0, you have to be wary of short lines from a 150. A 170/150 container sizing would probably be ideal for the foreseeable future, also consult your instructors. Size your reserve for the worst case scenario, not for landing straight into the wind. You will never regret having extra fabric over your head. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #19 November 28, 2009 how small do these speed reserves actually pack? from the data sheet looks like I could replace my PD143r with something much larger. JumpShack lists the PD143r with microline at 312 cu in measured - my container is for up to 350 cu in. will a speed 190 fit? How do they fly? could be my next reserve... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #20 November 28, 2009 Speed reserves are measured on the top skin and PD's are measured on the bottom skin. Basically its back to the old Icarus size difference. A 170 Speed is closer to 154 in PD terms.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #21 November 28, 2009 QuoteSpeed reserves are measured on the top skin and PD's are measured on the bottom skin. Basically its back to the old Icarus size difference. A 170 Speed is closer to 154 in PD terms. they are using the low bulk material? something PD has not managed to get done yet for sizes above 143. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeatlast 0 #22 November 29, 2009 Quote how small do these speed reserves actually pack? from the data sheet looks like I could replace my PD143r with something much larger. JumpShack lists the PD143r with microline at 312 cu in measured - my container is for up to 350 cu in. will a speed 190 fit? How do they fly? could be my next reserve... Well according to Paratec's website (www.paratec.de) you could fit a 220 into a container that will take up to 350 cu in. Even allowing for the different methods of measuring a canopy this a significant increase!! Obviously many factors affect packing volumes and you might want to check with them first. - And yes Paratec have been using this type of canopy for 8 years - EVEN IN THE LARGE SIZES !!! They are very popular in Europe ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #23 November 29, 2009 just interested, what speed reserve is about the same pack size as a PD143r? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeatlast 0 #24 November 30, 2009 According to Paragear - PD 143 Reserve has a pack volume of 343 cubic inches. Paratec lists the volume of their 220 as 344 cubic inches. Alternatively a 190 should fit in there with plenty of room! Even allowing for the 'different sizing methods' that was mentioned previously you should find the 190 or the 220 plenty big enough when compared to your current 143 reserve!! If you're interested in one pm me Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deyan 31 #25 November 30, 2009 Quote According to Paragear - PD 143 Reserve has a pack volume of 343 cubic inches. Paratec lists the volume of their 220 as 344 cubic inches. Alternatively a 190 should fit in there with plenty of room! Even allowing for the 'different sizing methods' that was mentioned previously you should find the 190 or the 220 plenty big enough when compared to your current 143 reserve!! If you're interested in one pm me Be really careful when you give an advice to someone based on what Para-gear or somebody else are saying.If you don't know from your personal experience by packing them is better to say that you don't know.Especially because you are a gear dealer.You don't want to be in a situation .."WTF My rigger said that there's no way this size reserve(recommended by you) to fit into the rig. This is just an advice,not an offenseblue skies"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
