dropdeded 0 #1 May 18, 2005 Always wanted to take some type of Martial Arts classes. I know there are a lot of different disciplines and I have no idea which one to take. Im interested in the mental and physical health aspects as well as being able to just kick your ass if I have to Experience? Suggestions? dropdeded------------------------------------------ The Dude Abides. - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kid_Icarus 0 #2 May 18, 2005 Kung fu is well rounded. I like Tai Chi as well. The two together are very complementary. ________________________________________ "What What..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #3 May 18, 2005 In north america we have this recurring problem whereby someone takes their little one to a particular school when the kid may be better suited for some other style. When the kid doesn't progress or doesn't enjoy it, the conclusion is "Martial Arts aren't for him/her." It's refreshing to hear someone actually ask about different styles. I've spent so many years training in the Arts. I've gone to 3 different schools before finding the perfect one for me. It was called "Ron Beers Family Self Defense Centre" and it was certainly a diamond in the rough. Ron teaches 42 different arts. I personally traveled with him to Japan and to China to pick up new ones and bring them back. Tell us more about yourself. About your physique. Many of the Japanese arts are what I called "Squared Off". Like "square off with your partner". Chito-ru is a Karate style fit for the strong, toe to toe fighter. Goju-ru is the same but starting to become more fluid.. experimenting with more round motion.... Judo is a weight shifting game... The Chinese arts, Kung-fus for example, are comprised of more rounded, fluid mtions. Designed for re-direction of energy and circomvention of an attacker.... It's all up to you and how your body works best. What types of sports and activities do you enjoy or eccell in? Or better yet, of all the Martial Art movie stars, which one do you see fighting most like? With each art comes the importance of self discipline and mental training. Some more than others. Tell me more about the "mental" aspects you seek? My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KevinMcGuire 0 #4 May 18, 2005 Nothing says ass kicking like Ju Jitsu. It is the way humans naturally fight. None of that fancy twirling and such. Mostly the art involves taking your opponent to the ground and either choking him out or breaking something like an arm, wrist, ankle ect. It may not be the prettiest art to watch but then fighting is not pretty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #5 May 18, 2005 QuoteIt is the way humans naturally fight. It's not at all that I disagree. But at the very core of Ed question is the realisation that there is no one "way humans naturally fight". This is the very reason why there are so many different styles. Quote Mostly the art involves taking your opponent to the ground and either choking him out or breaking something like an arm, wrist, ankle ect. You see. The very same can be said of Shoot-Wrestling, Chin-naw, Judo... the list goes on. Lots of people have come to the realisation that real fights tend to end up on the ground. Oh yeah, and all the "fancy twirling and such" has purpose not in a fight but for muscle memory. Have someone perform a Ju Jitsu Kata (form) for you and it will indeed have it's fair share of "fancy twirling"... mind you, a whole lot less that you would ever see in a Chinese Art. My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KevinMcGuire 0 #6 May 18, 2005 In my experience it is a good idea to be well rounded in several different fighting styles but when it comes right down to it Ju Jitsu almost always wins. Fighting rarely takes place "toe to toe". Sooner than later the fight will go to the ground usually in the first few seconds. If your opponent lacks ground skills, the fight is as good as over. Some one proficent only in Kung fu, Karate or some other standing art, will find that all of their skills become null and void the moment they are on the ground. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KevinMcGuire 0 #7 May 18, 2005 QuoteQuoteIt is the way humans naturally fight. It's not at all that I disagree. But at the very core of Ed question is the realisation that there is no one "way humans naturally fight". This is the very reason why there are so many different styles. Quote Mostly the art involves taking your opponent to the ground and either choking him out or breaking something like an arm, wrist, ankle ect. You see. The very same can be said of Shoot-Wrestling, Chin-naw, Judo... the list goes on. Lots of people have come to the realisation that real fights tend to end up on the ground. Oh yeah, and all the "fancy twirling and such" has purpose not in a fight but for muscle memory. Have someone perform a Ju Jitsu Kata (form) for you and it will indeed have it's fair share of "fancy twirling"... mind you, a whole lot less that you would ever see in a Chinese Art. No argument that other arts can and are benificial to know. When I say that Ju Jitsu is how humans fight I come to that by watching other animals fight in nature. Snakes, Goats, Bears, Lions, and hampsters all have a stlye that works best for their bodies and stregnth. Humans are no different. It is true that we can learn from animals and adapt some of their movements but when it comes down to winning at all cost, that happens on the ground Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gmittar 0 #8 May 18, 2005 One of the only problems I have with Jiu Jutsu is this. The fact that it is so effective tends to overshadow everything else, and in my experience it attracts people who are very interested in learning how to hurt people. Either in the ring or in the classroom. In addition to this, the control taught to students, in my experience is lacking. Who cares if you can defend yourself it you're permanently crippled in the process of learning? Kind of defeats the purpose. If you choose jiu justu, be very careful about the school you choose and the instructor you learn from. Carefully investigate your options and be sure that you're comfortable with the level of instruction and control present in the school you choose. |>.<| Seriously, W.T.F. mate? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KevinMcGuire 0 #9 May 18, 2005 QuoteOne of the only problems I have with Jiu Jutsu is this. The fact that it is so effective tends to overshadow everything else, and in my experience it attracts people who are very interested in learning how to hurt people. Either in the ring or in the classroom. . True but those people are going to hurt people anyway regardless of weather or not they know martial arts. They are the assholes of the world and they are every where Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gmittar 0 #10 May 18, 2005 QuoteQuoteOne of the only problems I have with Jiu Jutsu is this. The fact that it is so effective tends to overshadow everything else, and in my experience it attracts people who are very interested in learning how to hurt people. Either in the ring or in the classroom. . True but those people are going to hurt people anyway regardless of weather or not they know martial arts. They are the assholes of the world and they are every where Yes, but I would prefer not to learn from, and spar with them in a fighting system where lack of control can easily permanently cripple me. That's all I'm saying. |>.<| Seriously, W.T.F. mate? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KevinMcGuire 0 #11 May 18, 2005 I see your point. Fortunatly for me, I have not been exposed to those who take it too far while training. Perhaps I've been lucky. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewGuy 0 #12 May 18, 2005 I started training 20 years ago and have trained various styles. I’ve seen countless people try the arts and fizzle out. As well, of the very few people who do stick with it and achieve blackbelt (or equivalent) many of them unfortunately don’t continue. goose491, in my opinion offers good advice. In addition to this, finding a club that will enable you to weave your martial arts training into your lifestyle is in my opinion more important than picking the ‘right art’, especially when starting martial arts. Some additional things to consider: 1. Proximity to club - it has to be something you can continue to easily access. 2. Club atmosphere – are the people enjoyable to train with and do you look forward to returning on a consistent long term basis? 3. Ability of instructors - are they good teachers? Do they have a good understanding of the art? These are not synonymous with each other and the latter is unfortunately a bit more difficult for beginners the determine. 4. Do you enjoy it? - getting back to goose491's advice... why do you want to train? Does the club offer a mix of things you enjoy? Are you interested more in the physical aspects or intellectual aspects? Self defense? Competition? Physical fitness? or perhaps even as a way of making $$. Full contact (with or without body armor)? Weapons? After a hard days work I want to know that I won’t have any excuse for not going training (it’s close, my friends are expecting me, etc) and that when I do train I’m glad that I went. There are some *very* exciting martial arts out there to choose from. Good luck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #13 May 18, 2005 QuoteSome one proficent only in Kung fu, Karate or some other standing art, will find that all of their skills become null and void the moment they are on the ground. ha ha, my brother's art is stronger than your art, ha ha my brother will come over and kick your butt ha ha, ha ha mouse goose crane ha ha {it loses a bit in the translation} ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gmittar 0 #14 May 18, 2005 NewGuy has some really good points. If it's not fun for you, and it's not convenient for you, it probably won't continue for you. So, pick something you enjoy immensely, wether it's fencing or cage fighting. |>.<| Seriously, W.T.F. mate? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dropdeded 0 #15 May 18, 2005 Well, I'll start with the simple fact that I fuckin HATE what senseless violence does to not just specific people, but to families and communities in general. In my work I see the results and it disgusts me.Not to say that a good ass kicking cant be deserved Physically Im not in excellent shape but working on it. Im 41 and 20 years of roofing took not to great of a toll on my body, I think its still workable. Im really not sure what Im interested in, matter of fact at this point Im clueless as to what each discipline has to offer as far as fighting styles/self defense, and the mental aspects. Im listening though. dropdeded------------------------------------------ The Dude Abides. - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gmittar 0 #16 May 18, 2005 Dropdeded, You don't need to be in excellent shape to start a martial art. In fact, that's one of the large benefits is that it's a great work out. If you're looking for a balance between mental/spiritual/physical, you'll find that the mix varies even in the same style from school to school. You're probably better off figuring out if you prefer a hard style(blocking, punching, kicking, structured setup), a soft style(similar to hard style, but with more flowing movements, etc.), or a grappling style(judo, jiu jutsu, etc.). Hard styles include, most forms of Karate, Tae Kwon Doe, and other similar forms. Soft styles include kung fu, tai chi and other similar styles. Grappling, as said above are styles similar to judo, jiu jutsu, and I think Aikido fits somewhere in between grappling and soft style. My advice is, do a radius search for an acceptable distance, and go watch a class in some of the local schools. If you see one that interests you, take a few classes to see if it's for you. Beyond that, there's almost no way to tell. Edit: Regarding your comment about senseless violence, any martial art worth it's "salt" makes people less violent, not more. Something to look for when scoping out schools is the attitude of the students as well as the teacher. |>.<| Seriously, W.T.F. mate? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casurf1978 0 #17 May 18, 2005 QuoteWhen I say that Ju Jitsu is how humans fight I come to that by watching other animals fight in nature. Snakes, Goats, Bears, Lions, and hampsters all have a stlye that works best for their bodies and stregnth IMO the art that truly trys to capture how humans fight is Krav Maga. Everything is used from teeth to heels. I like it in that it incorporates boxing, kickboxing, JJ and disarming opponents. To the original poster check it out. You live in Cali they might have one near you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #18 May 18, 2005 QuoteIf your opponent lacks ground skills, the fight is as good as over. Abosolutely correct. QuoteSome one proficent only in Kung fu, Karate or some other standing art, will find that all of their skills become null and void the moment they are on the ground. You see this is where I know you have not done your homework. "Karate" emcompasses a great number if different arts. As does "Kung fu". To boldly state that they are both "Standing arts" is a mistake. I would tend to agree with you that the karate styles are more toe to toe than any others... but.... I have a black belt at Ron's club. My repertoire of art forms include: Chito-ru, Goju-ru, Hapkito, jujitsu, judo, Shoot-fighting, kempo, chin-naw & Siu Lum Kune kung fu. I learned another form of Kung Fu while in Japan, fashioned after the white crane and influenced by the mantis forms (I know, strange to go to Japan to learn Chinese arts). In China I learned two systems that were originally desinged to be incorporated with Tai Chi. They are called "bag-wa" and "Shing-hi". It is sort of a funny thing to the Chinese, how North Americans have taken to Tai-chi and have never even heard of these two other arts. I'd even be so bold as to say that some were none too pleased to see us learning them. Apparently neither is complete without the other two. Some weapons I have trained with include the Sai, the staff, the katana, the three-sectional, sicles, stick and dagger. I did some kendo fencing as well. The reason I am giving you almost my entire fighters resume is that I want you to see that Jujitsu is in there and yet, I still disagree that it is "the best" or the "most efficient way humans fight". I am thin, quick and somewhat flexible compared to large, strong inflexible... I will almost never go toe to toe with an opponent and I could not agree more with dancing horizontally instead of vertically. Siu Lum Kune was my favorite, the shaolin monks creation: tiger, leppoard, dragon, snake, tiger & crane, drunken man. What do you know of these forms? That they contain some fancy twirling? You should ask someone to translate those whirly-twirly moves for you... show you what the really are. Trust me that the Chinese knew "how humans fight" and that a great many of their arts are very comfortable on the ground. Have you ever heard of Shoot-Wrestling? It was founded by Ron. I bet you would LOVE it. It is all about the take-down and the submission hold. My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #19 May 18, 2005 Quote Always wanted to take some type of Martial Arts classes. I know there are a lot of different disciplines and I have no idea which one to take. Im interested in the mental and physical health aspects as well as being able to just kick your ass if I have to Experience? Suggestions? OK. There are two "types" of MA. Hard and Soft. Hard is when the focus is on striking...Karate, TaeKwon Do ect..... Soft are ones like several styles of Gung fu, Tai Chi Chuan, Akido...ext. Mostly circular motions. Almost all styles have both, but the focus is whats important. Also there are 4 "distances" Kicking, Punching, Grapling, and Wrestling. A good art will include all of them in some way. I learned from the inside out taking TKD, then learning to box/kickbox, going to Akido, and then finally Ju Jitsu. If I had known then what I know now, I would do it the other way since while it is nice to stop an opponent farther away from you....Most will get in, and you had better know close in fighting. That being said, you need to decide what styles fit you best...based on physical size/type/fitness and your goals. But the MOST important thing is to find a good school....Even if the style is not "ideal" for you, I'd rather see you learn at a good school than a bad one. My right wrist will NEVER be 100% due to some jackass Akido Instructor trying to show off. If *I* had the time I would find a place to take Ju Jitsu or Wing Chung....I really like both of those styles. Don't spend too much time looking...The truth is you will only find the style you want after you get started...And even then you may never find the "right" style. But really.....and I do mean this....Make sure its a good school with good instructors. The school is more important hat the style. Goose had some good points...I think he would agree that the teacher is more important than the style."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,174 #20 May 18, 2005 I'm a baaaaaad lady link Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsled92 0 #21 May 18, 2005 I enjoyed Issinryu(many years) & jeet-kun-do(1 year)_______________________________ If I could be a Super Hero, I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year. http://www.hangout.no/speednews/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeyRamone 0 #22 May 18, 2005 My 3 boys are in Kajukenbo. That stands for Karate, Judo and Jujitsu, Kempo and Chinese boxing and kung foo. They get the entire mix of form and styles. For a 5, 7 and 11 year old they kick some major ass. I will getting into it as well as my wife and 4 year old daughter this summer. With all the fuckin wack jobs out in society today no one is safe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #23 May 18, 2005 I use a mystical, but very effective style which involves a lot of running away really fast. It's called Fu Koff. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #24 May 18, 2005 QuoteIt's called Fu Koff. Not to be confused with the Scottish Martial Art which: "Consists mainly of head-buts and kicking the guy when he's down... It's called Fuk-yuue!!" -Mike Myers My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #25 May 18, 2005 Quote Not to be confused with the Scottish Martial Art which: "Consists mainly of head-buts and kicking the guy when he's down... It's called Fuk-yuue!!" -Mike Myers Unarmed combat, what's that? http://www.glasgowsurvival.co.uk/weapons/weapons.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
