Two airline pilots joked and laughed

[JeepDiver 0]

Two airline pilots joked and laughed as they flew an empty commercial jet to its limits, switched seats in mid-air and ignored automated warnings before crashing into a residential area, a cockpit voice recorder has revealed.

Captain Jesse Rhodes and First Officer Peter Cesarz were both killed after they decided to "have a little fun" and take the 50-seat Pinnacle Airlines jet they were flying to 41 000ft -- the limit of its capability. No one was hurt on the ground in Jackson City, Missouri, where the plane came down after suffering catastrophic engine failure.

"Ooh look at that," Cesarz said, apparently referring to cockpit readings. "Pretty cool."

"Man, we can do it. Forty-one it," the captain replied. "Forty thousand, baby."

Two minutes later Cesarz said: "Made it, man."

But seconds later, as an automatic system began warning of a stall, one of the pilots is heard to say: "Dude, it's losing it." A voice then said: "We don't have any engines. You got to be kidding me."

The plane crashed 4km from the runway, missing houses.

The transcripts were released as part of a federal investigation into whether pilots of small regional airlines are getting adequate training and supervision. - Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2005

Excerpts from the Pinnacle airliner that crashed Oct. 14, 2004

Excerpts from conversations between Pinnacle Airlines Capt. Jesse Rhodes and First Officer Peter Cesarz just before they died in the crash of a Bombardier regional jet on Oct. 14, 2004. Investigators say the crash occurred after the pilots took the plane to 41,000 feet, an altitude where engine problems can develop.

9:48:44 p.m. Cesarz: ''Man we can do it. Forty-one it.''
9:48:46 Rhodes: ''[Unintelligible] baby.''
9:48:57 Cesarz: ''Hundred and eighty knots, still cruising at Mach point six four.''
9:51:51 Cesarz: ''There's four-one-oh, my man.''
9:51:53 Cesarz: ''Made it, man.''
9:54:19 Rhodes: ''Yeah, that's funny, we got up here, it won't stay up here.''
9:54:22 Cesarz: ''Dude, it's [expletive] losing it.'' [Sound of laughing]
10:14:36 Cesarz: ''We're not gonna make it, man, we're not gonna make it.''
10:14:38 Rhodes: ''Is there a road? Tell her we're not gonna make this runway.''
10:14:46 Rhodes: ''Let's keep the gear up. [Expletive] I don't want to go into houses here.''
10:14:51 Cesarz: [Expletive] ''road right there.''
10:14:52 Rhodes: ''Where?''
10:14:52 Cesarz: ''Turn, turn . . . ''


10:14:53 Rhodes: ''Turn where?''

10:14:53 Cesarz: ''Turn to your left, turn to your left.''
10:14:56 Rhodes: Either: ''I see it'' or ''I can't.''
10:14:58 Warning signal in cockpit: ''Too low, terrain, terrain.''
10:14:59 Rhodes: ''Can't make it.''
10:15:03 Rhodes: ''Aw [expletive]. We're gonna hit houses, dude.''
- Source: National Transportation Safety Board

[jasonRose 0]

That sucks!!
Poor guys were just having some fun fucking off and the dam plane crapped out. Who were the engineers that designed that aircraft they should have plugged in the fuck off factor.

Seriously that is sad going from a great time to fighting for your life..

Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!!

[eeneR 1]

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Seriously that is sad going from a great time to fighting for your life..

Um how is that sad...they were fucking off....they could have killed lots of people...that is not sad...that is fucking stupid...

She is not a "Dumb Blonde" - She is a "Light-Haired Detour Off The Information Superhighway."
eeneR
TF#72, FB#4130, Incauto

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Well, yeah, it was risky and stupid, taking people's lives lightly, I suppose. But was there any reason for them to know or suspect that they would lose the engines -- and also to not be able to get them restarted? I don't know nearly enough about flying jets to be able to say.

I still think it's sad.

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[jasonRose 0]

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Um how is that sad...they were fucking off....they could have killed lots of people...that is not sad...that is fucking stupid...

Hmmmm..

How many times have you fucked off that could of hurt someone?? Ever drive fast in traffic? Granted flying the plane is a little larger scale..

Plus with that altitude you can react to a lot of engine malfunctions and be able to land safely. It did seem that peoples safety were on there mind when they did drive in.

Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!!

[eeneR 1]

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Well, yeah, it was risky and stupid, taking people's lives lightly, I suppose. But was there any reason for them to know or suspect that they would lose the engines -- and also to not be able to get them restarted? I don't know nearly enough about flying jets to be able to say.

I still think it's sad.

-Jeffrey

These pilots are trained to know what the plane will and wont do. They put not only there lives at risk but the lives of others at risk by pushing the envelope. Yes they should know....if they dont then the airline needs to train the pilots better.

Same theory as messing with your canopy doing stuff that it isnt suppose to do, having it collapse and not able to re-inflate. With out having the ability to goto a reserve....then add the fun of landing on houses and killing innocent people because you felt the need to screw off and have fun with a multi million dollar jet, that im sure isnt light

She is not a "Dumb Blonde" - She is a "Light-Haired Detour Off The Information Superhighway."
eeneR
TF#72, FB#4130, Incauto

[Rebecca 0]

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Seriously that is sad going from a great time to fighting for your life..

Um how is that sad...they were fucking off....they could have killed lots of people...that is not sad...that is fucking stupid...

I'm with you Renee - it really sounds like they made a series of stupid decisions, with chances to correct at each step before engine failure, and they just continued to fuck around until it was way too late... they reaped the horrible consequences and have now become yet another example of what NOT to do.

May they rest in peace. Thank God further tragedy was avoided on the ground.

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[panzwami 0]

yeah, might want to keep in mind that 41,000 feet was within the FAA certified operating limits for this particular aircraft, meaning these guys weren't actually doing anything reckless.

[eeneR 1]

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How many times have you fucked off that could of hurt someone??

Actually I dont make a regular habit of it. If I put my life at risk that is fine, but I do not do thinks that will risk others lives as well. Common sense. I want to drive fast? I go to an open road with little of no traffic.

Planes that crash can do ALOT of damage. Um think back to what happend a few years ago....

She is not a "Dumb Blonde" - She is a "Light-Haired Detour Off The Information Superhighway."
eeneR
TF#72, FB#4130, Incauto

[Rebecca 0]

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yeah, might want to keep in mind that 41,000 feet was within the FAA certified operating limits for this particular aircraft, meaning these guys weren't actually doing anything reckless.

Why did they sound so excited about reaching 41K then? If it was a normal flying altitude for that aircraft, I wouldn't think they'd be so thrilled about it...

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[eeneR 1]

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yeah, might want to keep in mind that 41,000 feet was within the FAA certified operating limits for this particular aircraft, meaning these guys weren't actually doing anything reckless.

Why did they sound so excited about reaching 41K then? If it was a normal flying altitude for that aircraft, I wouldn't think they'd be so thrilled about it...

And add to that if that is what caused the engine failure...then maybe the FAA needs to re-think the max

My point is this, there are test pilots to test this shit, these guys were pushing things over populated areas...that is stupid and reckless....

She is not a "Dumb Blonde" - She is a "Light-Haired Detour Off The Information Superhighway."
eeneR
TF#72, FB#4130, Incauto

[genoyamamoto 0]

HAHAHAHA Darwin award! Glad nobody else got hurt.

Gotta go... plaything needs to spank me
Feel the hate...
Photos here

[panzwami 0]

I think because they don't usually fly that high during the normal course of passenger-carrying business. But in this case, they had an empty airplane.

They got clearance from ATC to climb to that altitude, which (again) is certified as a safe altitude for that aircraft, so everything was legit.

I think the issue here is more about the process by which the FAA tested and certified that plane to fly at that altitude. It's not about two pilots who decided to hot dog it and got caught with their pants down.

[jasonRose 0]

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yeah, might want to keep in mind that 41,000 feet was within the FAA certified operating limits for this particular aircraft, meaning these guys weren't actually doing anything reckless.

Why did they sound so excited about reaching 41K then? If it was a normal flying altitude for that aircraft, I wouldn't think they'd be so thrilled about it...

I have taken aircraft to there ceiling multiple times and have been excited about it. Most of the time you cant get the aircraft to climb that high because of the engine performance but I am still flying within manufacture specs.

Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!!

[akjmpplt 0]

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These pilots are trained to know what the plane will and wont do. They put not only there lives at risk but the lives of others at risk by pushing the envelope. Yes they should know....if they dont then the airline needs to train the pilots better.

What makes you think they didn't "kow what the plane will and won't do"? They simply flew the airplane to it's FAA certified maximum altitude. There was nothing "wrong" with what they did.

SmugMug

[jasonRose 0]

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These pilots are trained to know what the plane will and wont do. They put not only there lives at risk but the lives of others at risk by pushing the envelope. Yes they should know....if they dont then the airline needs to train the pilots better.

What makes you think they didn't "kow what the plane will and won't do"? They simply flew the airplane to it's FAA certified maximum altitude. There was nothing "wrong" with what they did.

Exactly!!

Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!!

[eeneR 1]

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Quote

These pilots are trained to know what the plane will and wont do. They put not only there lives at risk but the lives of others at risk by pushing the envelope. Yes they should know....if they dont then the airline needs to train the pilots better.

What makes you think they didn't "kow what the plane will and won't do"? They simply flew the airplane to it's FAA certified maximum altitude. There was nothing "wrong" with what they did.

If what they did was nothing wrong...then why did it crash???

I understand that this was FAA says that 41,000 is ok...but they even said it themselves...it wasnt going to stay up there long...and it didnt...it crashed.

Piss poor decisions were made.

She is not a "Dumb Blonde" - She is a "Light-Haired Detour Off The Information Superhighway."
eeneR
TF#72, FB#4130, Incauto

[panzwami 0]

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If what they did was nothing wrong...then why did it crash???

Do we really need to list off all the major airline crashes that weren't caused by pilot error?

TWA 800, JAL 123, UAL 232, the list goes on and on.

[eeneR 1]

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If what they did was nothing wrong...then why did it crash???

Do we really need to list off all the major airline crashes that weren't caused by pilot error?

TWA 800, JAL 123, UAL 232, the list goes on and on.

Quote

Excerpts from conversations between Pinnacle Airlines Capt. Jesse Rhodes and First Officer Peter Cesarz just before they died in the crash of a Bombardier regional jet on Oct. 14, 2004. Investigators say the crash occurred after the pilots took the plane to 41,000 feet, an altitude where engine problems can develop

Based on the highlighted statement...the pilots made the choice to go to the altitude knowing that engine problems were possible....so that would be pilot error

She is not a "Dumb Blonde" - She is a "Light-Haired Detour Off The Information Superhighway."
eeneR
TF#72, FB#4130, Incauto

[jasonRose 0]

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Based on the highlighted statement...the pilots made the choice to go to the altitude knowing that engine problems were possible....so that would be pilot error

I wasn't there so I don't know. Engine failures can happen for multple reasons and are unlikly when operating within manufacture specs.
Its like asking why didn't someone main open and speculating if you wern't there.

Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!!

[panzwami 0]

yeah, but engine problems can also develop at 40,000 feet, 39,000 feet, 150 feet, or pretty much anywhere else. The fact that the aircraft was certified to fly at FL410 means the FAA had determined that such an altitude would not create an unsafe risk for engine failure, explosive decompression, wings falling off, or any other catastrophic problem.

[eeneR 1]

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Its like asking why didn't someone main open and speculating if you wern't there.

Um that would be called having a discussion. That is all im doing, voicing my opinion. If you take anything aircraft, car, canopy to its upper limits you are taking a risk. There was a known risk at that alti. This time they could have killed more then just themselves...they managed not to...thank god.

She is not a "Dumb Blonde" - She is a "Light-Haired Detour Off The Information Superhighway."
eeneR
TF#72, FB#4130, Incauto

[flifree 0]

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If what they did was nothing wrong...then why did it crash???

we put an enormous amount of trust in machines and sometimes they break. yes they were getting to the upper limits of the faa certification for the CRJ, but they were still 'in the envelope'. could have had contaminated fuel or any number of things.

does anyone know if the faa published ceilings are calculated for a full fuel/passenger load? if that is the case then 41K should have been a breeze since they were sans passengers/baggage.

[IanHarrop 37]

The final line in this source
http://yahoo.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-06-13-pilot-violations_x.htm?csp=1

says the following:

"After reaching that height, they joked about celebrating with a beer. Within three minutes, they had lost so much speed that the jet plunged out of control. The loss of control was so violent it snuffed out the engines. "

I don't know sweet shit about airplanes other than they get me to where I want to jump out so I am adding this to the conversation only as more information....

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[jenfly00 0]

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Seriously that is sad going from a great time to fighting for your life..

Um how is that sad...they were fucking off....they could have killed lots of people...that is not sad...that is fucking stupid...

It sounds like they were having a blast. Based on what we read above, I couldn't make a call on whether or not they were reckless or unsafe. (assuming 41,000 feet was within operating limits)

How bout if they had said:

9:48:44 p.m. Cesarz: ''Take her to 41,000 feet.''
9:48:46 Rhodes: ''[Unintelligible].''
9:48:57 Cesarz: ''Hundred and eighty knots, still cruising at Mach point six four.''
9:51:51 Cesarz: ''Altitude 41 thousand.''
9:51:53 Cesarz: ''Roger that.''
9:54:19 Rhodes: ''That's strange.''
9:54:22 Cesarz: ''Stalling!"
10:14:36 Cesarz: ''We're not gonna make it, man, we're not gonna make it.''
10:14:38 Rhodes: ''Is there a road? Tell her we're not gonna make this runway.''
10:14:46 Rhodes: ''Let's keep the gear up. [Expletive] I don't want to go into houses here.''
10:14:51 Cesarz: [Expletive] ''road right there.''
10:14:52 Rhodes: ''Where?''
10:14:52 Cesarz: ''Turn, turn . . . ''

Absent information to the contrary, sounds like two friends enjoying their work. There is a bit of a puritan in all of us and my first reaction was closer to yours.


BSBD,

jen

-----------------------
"O brave new world that has such people in it".