Seatbelt routing

[CMiller 1]

I regards to routing the seatbelt, I've always threaded it under one or both legstraps. This was advice given to me by several experienced jumpers at a dropzone where I used to jump.

Now, having moved, a few experienced jumpers mentioned to me not to put the seatbelt through my legstrap. Instead, I should either simply put it over my lap not through the harness, or run it under the main lift web. They didn't give me a reason as to why using the leg strap is bad, other than that it was not optimal should a collision occur.

Common sense tell me that I need to route it through my harness somewhere, and I avoided the lift web because I don't want to risk dislodging handles. So the leg strap seems like a good place.

Are there any good reasons not to put the belt under a leg strap?

If it matters, the old dropzone flew a 185, and the new one an otter if that makes any difference in terms of belt procedure.

[phoenixlpr 0]

Are you talking about the regular 2 point seat belt?
I would not interfere with my gear. Its simple and safe to use on your lap and make it tight.

[ep11300 0]

I always think about having to get it off in a hurry. What would be the scenario? I dunno for sure, but I wouldn,t want to hit the release and have it hang up when I was trying to get out. Just a thought.

[Fast 0]

In an otter with side benches and lap belts with two points of attachment, you don't need to do more than put it over your lap and cinch it down tight.

In a floor seating situation in a cessna, in many seating arrangements just putting the belt over your lap won't do anything, it needs to go through the harness.

That would be why you are receiving conflicting information. Different airplanes require different procedures.

Hope that helps.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

Here is timely and interesting reading on this topic from the National Transportation Safety Board.

http://www.uspa.org/Portals/0/news/NTSB-USPASafetyRestraints.pdf

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[champu 1]

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Here is timely and interesting reading on this topic from the National Transportation Safety Board.

http://www.uspa.org/Portals/0/news/NTSB-USPASafetyRestraints.pdf

Synopsis: Single point restraints looped through the parachute harness don't do anything for you in a crash, and more research should be done to determine how best to improve restraint systems in the various types of jump aircraft.

[riggerrob 558]

Edited:

"Synopsis: LOOSE Single point restraints looped through the parachute harness don't do anything for you in a crash, ..."

[Para5-0 0]

IMO: It depends on the aircraft and its configuration. One note and a absolute pet peeve of mine is in a aircraft where male and female belts are on the side of the plane next to benches, I teach to ALWAYS put the male end from rear to front through the leg strap and then buckle. In an aircraft emergency when you release the buckle the male end should slide out while you move forward towards exit. I have seen so many experienced skydivers route the fat female end through the leg strap, thus creating a fast exit almost impossible. I teach this in FJC and put emphasis on it throughout AFF. I have had to get out in an emergency and this was one thing that was learned after we debriefed the incident. For what it is worth.

[DSE 3]

I was taught the same...
No one has brought up putting the seatbelt through the chest strap here... I see it done in many places, but the chest strap isn't part of the harness...
Why is it that the legstrap is considered part of the harness but the chest strap isn't?

[phoenixlpr 0]

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, but the chest strap isn't part of the harness...
Why is it that the legstrap is considered part of the harness but the chest strap isn't?

Chest and leg straps are part of the harness.

[DSE 3]

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Chest and leg straps are part of the harness.

Not according to the FSDO that inspected our aircraft last season. He saw wingsuits using chest strap and told us we're in violation.

[JohnMitchell 14]

I think many of the FSDO guys like to interpret things creatively. What may pass with one may not pass with another.

[wolfriverjoe 1,346]

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I was taught the same...
No one has brought up putting the seatbelt through the chest strap here... I see it done in many places, but the chest strap isn't part of the harness...
Why is it that the legstrap is considered part of the harness but the chest strap isn't?

I'm not a rigger, so I might be wrrong, but I was told the chest strap isn't a load bearing part of the harness. There isn't any stress on it when you are in the harness normally. There really isn't a whole lot during a normal opening. It is a lot thinner than the main lift webs and leg straps. Any real rigger may have a more correct answer.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[pakker 0]

That is a good point. Chest straps are non-bearing an usually type 17, 2500 lbs, or type 8 4000 lbs webbing. The most common chest strap buckle, however, is only rated to 500 lbs before it deforms.

[CMiller 1]

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IMO: It depends on the aircraft and its configuration. One note and a absolute pet peeve of mine is in a aircraft where male and female belts are on the side of the plane next to benches, I teach to ALWAYS put the male end from rear to front through the leg strap and then buckle. In an aircraft emergency when you release the buckle the male end should slide out while you move forward towards exit. I have seen so many experienced skydivers route the fat female end through the leg strap, thus creating a fast exit almost impossible. I teach this in FJC and put emphasis on it throughout AFF. I have had to get out in an emergency and this was one thing that was learned after we debriefed the incident. For what it is worth.

The male ends always seem too short for this in the planes I've jumped.

[ozzy13 0]

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IMO: It depends on the aircraft and its configuration. One note and a absolute pet peeve of mine is in a aircraft where male and female belts are on the side of the plane next to benches, I teach to ALWAYS put the male end from rear to front through the leg strap and then buckle. In an aircraft emergency when you release the buckle the male end should slide out while you move forward towards exit. I have seen so many experienced skydivers route the fat female end through the leg strap, thus creating a fast exit almost impossible. I teach this in FJC and put emphasis on it throughout AFF. I have had to get out in an emergency and this was one thing that was learned after we debriefed the incident. For what it is worth.

The male ends always seem too short for this in the planes I've jumped.

In most planes it seems that way!!!!

Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

[kallend 1,635]

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The male ends always seem too short

I ... must .... refrain ... from ... commenting!

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[champu 1]

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Edited:

"Synopsis: LOOSE Single point restraints looped through the parachute harness don't do anything for you in a crash, ..."

I don't know that the statement needs that qualification. From the sled tests it's concluded that loose restraints will not perform as well as snug ones, but overall the single point restraints on aft-facing passengers did little more than serve as a pivot point to rotate about and slam the passenger's head and limbs into the fuselage and other passengers.

Picture yourself in the plane belted in and imagine the full range of translation and rotation all your limbs, your torso, neck, and head are allowed. During a crash the only fair assumption is that your body will make full use of this freedom of motion.

[riggerrob 558]

Funny, I reached the exact opposite conclusion when I viewed video footage - from sled tests - in 1997.
If you use a single-point attachment - anchoring a hip to the base of the nearest wall - you get only a little flailing.

However, if you are silly enough to route a single-point belt ACROSS your lap before routing it through the hip joint farthest from the wall, you will get a lot of flailing. Why anyone would want to work that hard is a mystery to me.

Short of filling the cabin with airbags - there is always going to be some flailing and whip lash injuries.

Single-point seat belts are a huge improvement on nothing and the best we are likely to see for the foreseeable future.

[pchapman 262]

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Picture yourself in the plane belted in and imagine the full range of translation and rotation all your limbs, your torso, neck, and head are allowed. During a crash the only fair assumption is that your body will make full use of this freedom of motion.

Yeah not much fun.

But neither is packing 20 skydivers into the front 6 feet of a Twin Otter when seatbelts aren't worn.

[riggerrob 558]

If your hip joint is anchored in a corner (floor and wall), then (a single-point seat belt) will only allow you to swing through a 90 degree arch, sideways.

Not perfect, but a huge improvement on nothing.

Just consider that the United States Air Force - with its billions of dollars of R&D funding - has never invented a better restraint system.

Granted, single-point restraints may not be perfect, but if you tell me to fly in an airplane without them, my response will be loud, profane, rude and conclude with me storming off the airplane in a rage!