computer buying advice?

[livendive 8]

OK, so at 6 years old, my home computer is becoming outdated, and I'm getting confused trying to shop for it's replacement. I've got a P3 500 mhz running Windows 98, with a 20 GB hard drive, CD-ROM and 3.25" floppy drives, and like 128 MB of RAM. I'm looking at new computers and am getting a bit confused by how things have changed. I don't know what L2 cache is, nor DDR/SDDR, nor the relevance of a front side bus. I'm assuming Windows XP is now the standard? Is Pentium still the only way to go (NOT going Mac), or is the AMD Athlon or whatever equally good but without the marketting?

I know I want to be able to play with/edit movies on the new machine, and I might end up setting up a network so I can route audio through my home stereo (which I believe recognizes wireless). I'll also want the microsoft basics (word/excel), and it'd be nice if the machine is sufficiently modern to last 5+ years like my current one. I'm looking at the below (refurbished) machine for $850, becase a comparably equipped Dell seems to be around $2000, but this price is only through today. Should I buy it? Can anyone offer some generic advice on buying one today's machines (definite gets and don't gets)?

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HP warrants that this Pavilion desktop is free from defects in materials or workmanship under normal use during the warranty period. The warranty period commences on the date of purchase. Your dated sales receipt is your proof of the date of purchase. This warranty extends only to you, the original purchaser, and cannot be transferred.

During the warranty period, Hewlett Packard will repair or replace HP defective parts with new parts or with serviceable used parts that are equivalent or superior to new parts in performance, at no additional cost.

Featuring a 3.0GHz Intel® Pentium® 4 processor with Hyper Threading technology, 17" LCD flat panel monitor, DVD±RW drive with LightScribe direct disc labeling and 9-in-1 digital media card reader, the HP refurbished a1023c-b is a powerful desktop computer perfect for your business and personal needs.


Processor & Memory:

Intel Pentium 4 processor 630 at 3.0GHz
2MB L2 cache
800MHz Front Side Bus
1GB DDR2 SDRAM (shared)
Drives:

250GB (7,200RPM) SATA hard drive
LightScribe Double Layer DVD±RW Drive: DVD+R (16x); DVD-R (8x); DVD±RW (4x); DVD+R DL (2.4x); DVD-ROM (16x); CD-R (40x); CD-RW (24x); CD-ROM (40x)
16x max DVD-ROM drive
Graphics & Video:

17” LCD flat panel monitor with adjustable base and integrated speakers
Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 900 with up to 128MB shared video memory
Communications:

Integrated 10/100BASE-T network interface
56K modem
Audio:

Intel high definition audio, 8-speaker configurable
Keyboard & Mouse:

HP multimedia keyboard
HP optical mouse
Expandability:

4 DIMM (240-pin DDR2) memory slots (2 available)
Expansion slots: 3 PCI (2 available)
Drive bays: 2 external 5.25” (occupied); 2 external 3.5” (one available); 1 internal 3.5” (occupied)
Ports:

9-in-1 digital media card reader supports Compact Flash I/II, xD card, SmartMedia, Memory Stick, Memory Stick Pro, MultiMediaCard, Secure Digital and IBM Microdrive
7 USB 2.0 ports (3 front, 4 back)
2 IEEE 1394 (Firewire)
1 Parallel port
2 PS/2 (mouse and keyboard)
Microphone/Headphone/Line-in

Operating System:

Microsoft® Windows XP Home Edition
Additional Software:

Microsoft® Works
Microsoft Money Standard
Quicken New Users Edition
MSN Encarta (1year Trial Subscription)
Norton Internet Security (60 days complimentary live updates)

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Smokis 0]

I just did a quick check and you should be able to get the exact same PC from Dell for around $1500 with a basic MS Office package.

For what it sounds like you intend to use this computer for, I wouldn't worry to much about what DDR is or front side bus. Look around at Dell some more and you should be able to get a similar rig for well under $2000.

And I would stick with the Pentium 4's for your applications.

Take a look at this:
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=DE51RF2&s=dhs
I would upgrade the Monitor, Video Card, and add in MSN office basic and you have a nice system.

[SkiD_PL8 0]

My best advice would be don't get a dell or gateway. If you know anyone who can build a computer pay them 50-100$ and order the parts from newegg.com and have a nice computer that you will be able to upgrade as new technology comes out instead of replacing an entire computer in a couple years. If not you will probably be forced to buy from dell or one of the others.

Greenie in training.

[livendive 8]

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Take a look at this:
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=DE51RF2&s=dhs
I would upgrade the Monitor, Video Card, and add in MSN office basic and you have a nice system.

Thanks for the advice. I upgraded the monitor to the 19" ultrasharp monitor(presumably the difference is worth $80), added a card reader and firewire port, an optical mouse, and the basic Office package and it comes to $1358. Is it $500 better than the one I listed in my original post?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[atsaubrey 0]

Do NOT repeat DO NOT buy a Dell. We had 6 here in our office and they all took a shit within a year and we replaced them all. Take the advice of the other poster, have someone build one for you. I had mine build 6 yrs ago and have been upgrading ever since and only one have I had a problem and it was a CD drive that took a crap. It was an easy fix and I (yes me myself) was able to open it up and replace it...try things like that with a Dell with other components. Good example is we had a CPU fan go bad in one of our dells and Dell uses their own fan and they wanted to replace the whole friggin motherboard and processor which wasn't covered under warranty anymore.

"GOT LEAD?"

[bwilling 0]

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Is it $500 better than the one I listed in my original post?

No.

The box you have listed is nicely configured, should last you for many years (perfomance wise), and is an excellent deal. I've personally bought lots of refurb stuff, and have always had good luck with it, and likewise have had good luck so far with the HP stuff I've purchased for work...

"If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got."

[Smokis 0]

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Take a look at this:
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=DE51RF2&s=dhs
I would upgrade the Monitor, Video Card, and add in MSN office basic and you have a nice system.

Thanks for the advice. I upgraded the monitor to the 19" ultrasharp monitor(presumably the difference is worth $80), added a card reader and firewire port, an optical mouse, and the basic Office package and it comes to $1358. Is it $500 better than the one I listed in my original post?

Blues,
Dave

Actually everyone here does have a point. I built my own computer back in January and its very upgradable. If this option is available to you go that route.

I suggested Dell because most people I know don't always knows someone that builds computers. However if this option is not available to you,
Dell is probably one of the better choices you have.

I just ordered my wife a laptop from Dell. I've always heard good stories about them and have purchased dells in the past for my workplace. I've also heard about nightmeres with Dell, but every company will have a customer willing to share a bad story. Dell probably just has more of them cause they sell so many damn computers to begin with. I'm sure their satisfaction ratio is on par with many other PC makers.

As for your question about that dell computer being $500 worth more than the HP. To me, the fact that the word Dell is on it and not HP is worth the $500. I absolutely hate HP and Compaq with a passion. My last PC was an HP and that is what prompted me to learn how to build my own computer.

[livendive 8]

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Do NOT repeat DO NOT buy a Dell. We had 6 here in our office and they all took a shit within a year and we replaced them all. Take the advice of the other poster, have someone build one for you.

My current computer is a Dell. The CD died during the warranty period, the first replacement sucked, and the second replacement worked fine, but is noisy. It's now dying, but that stands to reason given it's been on for probably 80% of the last 6 years.

Getting someone to build it doesn't seem too feasible. I know one guy who builds machines, and I don't completely trust him. Plus, if I run into a compatibility problem, I won't know how to fix it myself. So who are the good pre-builts? HP? Sony? ABS? My suspicion is that the Sony computers are overpriced just because they "look" cooler, but I don't know that.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Frenchy68 0]

Dave,
I have an Apple Superdrive SE I could sell you. Comes with a blazing 8Mhz CPU, a whopping 1MB of RAM, and a 20MB hard drive. It's fully loaded with Word 1.0 and Excel 1.0
I'll give you a good price.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[wildcard451 0]

And god forbid you want to add memory to your Pavillion. Esp if it is a mini tower. Huge pain in the ass.

Damnit, now this thread is really making me want to take a trip over to NewEgg.

[livendive 8]

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Dave,
I have an Apple Superdrive SE I could sell you. Comes with a blazing 8Mhz CPU, a whopping 1MB of RAM, and a 20MB hard drive. It's fully loaded with Word 1.0 and Excel 1.0
I'll give you a good price.

Thanks for the generous offer Nick, but I already have an Apple IIe sitting in storage.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Smokis 0]

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And god forbid you want to add memory to your Pavillion. Esp if it is a mini tower. Huge pain in the ass.

Damnit, now this thread is really making me want to take a trip over to NewEgg.

Because I live in Canada I'm not familiar with newegg.com, but we do have a company here in canada that I would consider similar, ncix.com

I bought all my stuff from ncix.com when I built my rig. One service they offer when you are buying parts to build a computer from them is to build the computer for you. Does newegg.com do this?

If so I'm sure there is enough computer knowledge between us all to help Dave pick his PC parts and then have newegg build it for him.

[livendive 8]

So that's two opposed to Dell and two opposed to HP.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[livendive 8]

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If so I'm sure there is enough computer knowledge between us all to help Dave pick his PC parts and then have newegg build it for him.

You know, I'm kind of intrigued by the idea of building, especially if that makes it better & cheaper at the same time, but I have one question. Do you have to buy ALL the software (including windows) for a homebuilt? It seems like that would make it cost-prohibitive in a matter of picoseconds.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[NWFlyer 2]

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If so I'm sure there is enough computer knowledge between us all to help Dave pick his PC parts and then have newegg build it for him.

You know, I'm kind of intrigued by the idea of building, especially if that makes it better & cheaper at the same time, but I have one question. Do you have to buy ALL the software (including windows) for a homebuilt? It seems like that would make it cost-prohibitive in a matter of picoseconds.

Blues,
Dave

Not if you know people who work for M$.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[Smokis 0]

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If so I'm sure there is enough computer knowledge between us all to help Dave pick his PC parts and then have newegg build it for him.

You know, I'm kind of intrigued by the idea of building, especially if that makes it better & cheaper at the same time, but I have one question. Do you have to buy ALL the software (including windows) for a homebuilt? It seems like that would make it cost-prohibitive in a matter of picoseconds.

Blues,
Dave

Most places will let you buy OEM versions of the software when you purchase items such as a motherboard and CPU. The cost is signifcantly less. You don't get the box or manual though

[livendive 8]

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Not if you know people who work for M$.

Do I know any of those people? Or anyone who works for Adobe (for a copy of Premier to edit video)?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[NWFlyer 2]

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Not if you know people who work for M$.

Do I know any of those people? Or anyone who works for Adobe (for a copy of Premier to edit video)?

Blues,
Dave

Hmmm... my sources aren't DZ people. I don't think I know any Adobe people.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[Smokis 0]

Forgot to mention, quite often when you purchase a video card that is designed to edit video on it, the software comes with it free of charge. You just have to install it yourself.

If you do go the route of building yourself, you probably will want to have a friend that is at least computer saavy to help you make sure everything is configured right after the build.

[Smokis 0]

Here, check this out:
http://www.buildyourowncomputer.net/learntobuild.html

This will help you give an idea of what its like to build a PC.

[wildcard451 0]

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If so I'm sure there is enough computer knowledge between us all to help Dave pick his PC parts and then have newegg build it for him.

You know, I'm kind of intrigued by the idea of building, especially if that makes it better & cheaper at the same time, but I have one question. Do you have to buy ALL the software (including windows) for a homebuilt? It seems like that would make it cost-prohibitive in a matter of picoseconds.

Blues,
Dave

Not when you "find" copies of software. Not that I have ever done that. But I know people who do.

[bwilling 0]

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I'm kind of intrigued by the idea of building

Most of the folks that build don't build to save money, because it really won't save you much, if any at all. They build so that they can explicity select system components that they favor, and have worked best for them in the past. Anybody that's worked with PC technology for very long will have dealt with some stuff that didn't work at all, or worse, worked but didn't work right!

Unfortunately, when it comes to PCs, that's the nature of the beast!

"If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got."

[Smokis 0]

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I'm kind of intrigued by the idea of building

Most of the folks that build don't build to save money, because it really won't save you much, if any at all. They build so that they can explicity select system components that they favor, and have worked best for them in the past. Anybody that's worked with PC technology for very long will have dealt with some stuff that didn't work at all, or worse, worked but didn't work right!

Unfortunately, when it comes to PCs, that's the nature of the beast!

I would agree, I think customization is the big driver here.

But price is also a pretty big driver. Had I went out and purchased my rig at retail and had it built, I would have probably been charged $3000-$4000, but because I built it myself (which also means shopping around for the best deals for each component of the PC) I managed to only spend $2000. BTW I'm talking Canadian dollars.

[kelpdiver 2]

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You know, I'm kind of intrigued by the idea of building, especially if that makes it better & cheaper at the same time, but I have one question. Do you have to buy ALL the software (including windows) for a homebuilt? It seems like that would make it cost-prohibitive in a matter of picoseconds.

As the others have said, DIY doesn't save money, it just saves the hassle of dealing with crappy compromises and gives you a more beefer PC. You don't even have to do it yourself piece by piece, you just go to one of the increasingly rare small shops that will do it.

For your needs, the compromises probably don't matter. That machine you listed has everything you need - 1g of memory and lots of usb/ieee ports in particular. Windows licenses are much cheaper thru a big vendor as well. (of course, if you have that friend...)

Personally, given the choice of HP crap or Dell crap, I'd go with Dell. There's a reason why Dell dominates and HP dumped Carly.

I'd also take the athlon64 over Intel, but either will kick that 500mhz box into the closet.

[livendive 8]

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I'd also take the athlon64 over Intel, but either will kick that 500mhz box into the closet.

So is this refurbished Compaq a better deal at $699? The L2 Cache (whatever that is) and the RAM are lower, but RAM is fairly cheap to add ain't it?

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AMD Athlon 64 3400+ processor at 2.40GHz
512KB L2 cache
512MB DDR SDRAM (shared); expandable to 2GB
Drives:

200GB Ultra DMA hard drive (7,200RPM)
LightScribe Double Layer DVD±R/RW drive (16x DVD+R; 8x DVD-R; 4x DVD±RW; 2.4x DVD+R DL; 16x DVD-ROM; 40x CD-R; 24x CD-RW; 40x CD-ROM)
16x max DVD-ROM
Graphics & Video:

17” LCD flat panel display with integrated speakers
Integrated SIS Mirage2 graphics with 128MB shared video memory
Communications:

Integrated 10/100BASE-T network interface
56K modem
Audio:

Integrated audio
Keyboard & Mouse:

Compaq multimedia keyboard
Compaq scroller mouse
Expandability:

Two DIMM (184-pin DDR) memory slots (1 available)
Expansion slots: 3 PCI (2 available); 1 AGP (available)
Drive bays: two external 5.25” (occupied); one external 3.5” (available); one internal 3.5” (occupied)
Ports:

9-in-1 digital media card reader supports Compact Flash I/II, SmartMedia, Memory Stick, Memory Stick Pro, MultiMediaCard, xD, Secure Digital and IBM Microdrive
7 USB 2.0 ports (3 front, 4 back)
2 IEEE 1394 (Firewire) ports (1 front, 1 back)
1 Parallel port
1 Serial port
2 PS/2 (mouse and keyboard)
Microphone/Headphone/Line-in

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)