Is it true what i heard some skydivers NON-Riggers prefer packing their own reserves?

[autoset 0]

I have like 6 months in the sport tops and always thought everybody took their reserve packjobs very seriously and followed the rules to the extreme when messing with reserves but now i might discover this doesn't apply to a small percentage of people.

Maybe these jumpers have had a tough life and only trust themselves exclusively, maybe it's because they don't want to pay for repacks or because they can't afford it, or they prefer taking all the credit when saving their own life after a malfunction, whatever dude who knows.

Anyway is this whole thing true or what? Forgive my n00bness.

[2shay 0]

I won't say that it is not true. I and others that I know have packed (really helped pack) our own reserves with a rigger, before I got my riggers ticket. I would really not doubt that a few pack their own. Screwing with reserves and not following the rules set by FAA can get ya bed in breakfast in a prison pretty quick. You don't sound like you would do that though. To all it is not a good idea. There are also people who will report you if they hear about it. I would do it on a personal level first, but once again not a good idea.

don't try your bullshit with me!!!

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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I have like 6 months in the sport tops and always thought everybody took their reserve packjobs very seriously and followed the rules to the extreme when messing with reserves but now i might discover this doesn't apply to a small percentage of people.

I've personally seen incorrect (weaker) links used on a reserve; slider bumpers not installed; no torque stripes on connector links; sub-optimal bulk distribution that causes pop-tops to not set right (which then might catch on a door); the Capewell reserve ripcord service bulletin not complied with; and bridle routings other than specified by the manufactruer. I'm not a rigger, and would expect people who are to have seen more.

One person I know got a new rig where the manufacturer hot glued parts of the harness but failed to stitch them and a rigger assembled and sealed the defective rig. One person I know had a double malfunction (I don't know if the rigging could be implicated in this case) and only had time to deal with the reserve malfunction because he'd had a premature main opening.

I've seen third hand reports of molar straps arround reserves; reserve line finger traps not sewn (not discovered on initial assembly); reserve pilot chute fabric stowed under the Reflex decorative cap (this would cause a total reserve malfunction if not used with the catapult); container locks caused by incorrect reserve closing loop length; 50 pound reserve pulls; etc.

I trust myself to have a copy of the manufacturer's packing instructions and not to do those things more than I do some other person.

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Maybe these jumpers have had a tough life and only trust themselves exclusively, maybe it's because they don't want to pay for repacks or because they can't afford it, or they prefer taking all the credit when saving their own life after a malfunction, whatever dude who knows.

I've packed for all but one of my BASE jumps (and that one opened nearly 180 degrees off-heading), and figured that since I didn't trust other people to be packing my only parachute in that case I shouldn't be trusting them to do the same for my only skydiving parachute once I've gotten rid of the main.

Apart from that, packing reserves is enjoyable when you don't do too many and aren't on a tight time schedule.

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Anyway is this whole thing true or what? Forgive my n00bness.

Some of us have helped riggers pack our reserves doing all of the mechanical work except for signing the data card and log book.

[kenneth21441 0]

First off if this is true. What they are really doing is Illegal (Against the law) as reguards to the FAA that is.

Secound: It is hard to believe that some fool thinks that they are qualified based on the number of jumps etc.. If they really were good they would take the test and do what they need to do to get that FAA License to be a rigger.

Sure it would lesson the liabilty on myself if that person burns in.... since that person was in the wrong. But if they look at the pack data card they will still look at the last rigger.

Ive known of one person who penciled a riggers name in just to save the rig from being repacked and that was the last time they were allowed to jump in this area/

So best advice is dont do it....

If you are that cheap then trust your life to walking then driving.

Some People are just TSTO (Too Stuipd To Live).

Kenneth Potter
FAA Senior Parachute Rigger
Tactical Delivery Instructor (Jeddah, KSA)
FFL Gunsmith

[2shay 0]

If someone penciled my name and seal!!!!! I would report them and then beat the hell out them. No BS. I know that happens, but OMG what the hell are people thinking.

don't try your bullshit with me!!!

[dragon2 0]

It used to be legal here to pack your own reserve, I doubt it is still being done much since you would have to get your reserve packing license now (don't need to be a rigger) and keep it current, but for people that have been in the sport really long, it's not that weird.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[2shay 0]

Who's seal #'s are you suppose to put on the seal if you packed it and are not a certified rigger?

don't try your bullshit with me!!!

[dragon2 0]

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Who's seal #'s are you suppose to put on the seal if you packed it and are not a certified rigger?

We have 2 licenses here: "vouwbevoegdheidhouder" which translates as someone who is allowed to pack reserves, and rigger. Both have their own seal so no problem there. The vouwbevoegdheidhouder cannot do the yearly check nor any rigging work on the rig, so many people let them do the "between" repack cause they usually charge less and go to a rigger for the yearly check+repack.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[stayhigh 2]

if i knew how to pack my own reserve and if i had right to do so then i rather pack my own reserve..

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[mr2mk1g 10]

Very recently, (as in the last day or so), there was a post on here from a non-rigger who packs his own reserve.

He was from Brazil. They have different rules there. He noted that it was perfectly legal for him to pack his own reserve given the licence he had. In fact he pointed out that there were no riggers in his State so he has little option but to pack his own reserve.

Different places, different rules.

[2shay 0]

oh okay, i knew you were not in US but thought you meant that you could do that here. Misunderstanding.

don't try your bullshit with me!!!

[peckerhead 0]

It is perfectly legal to pack your own reserve as long as you do it under the direct supervision of an appropriately rated rigger.

I packed my own reserve for nearly 17 years before I got my own ticket. My rigger would supervise and then seal it with his seal. In fact, you must have at least 20 reserve pack jobs before you can get your ticket in the type you are applying for.

I have always taken it very seriously and always felt more comfortable either doing it myself or at least watching during the entire process.

It aint rocket science.

[JerryBaumchen 1,068]

Hi auto,

You'll see more than this if you stay with this skydiving thing.

This has been going on since the mid-'60's; believe me, I know.

Jerry

[diablopilot 2]

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First off if this is true. What they are really doing is Illegal (Against the law) as reguards to the FAA that is.

No it's not. Not if they are under the direct supervision of an apropriately rated FAA rigger.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[peckerhead 0]

Kinda like driving a car......

You can't drive a car with out a license....

But, you can't get a license unless you can drive a car!

It aint rocket science folks. If you can't do it then pay someone else. I think it puts you at a disadvantage if you don't know how to take care of and maintain your own equipment.

You don't have to be able to pack everything out there, but, you should be able to pack the shit that is on your back every time you jump.

And I am talking Both Parachutes!

Lets get real folks! I would never feel comfortable just dumping my trash off every 120 days and saying " here you deal with it, I am way to stupid!"

WTF!

If you don't want to pack your own reserve I totally understand, it is a pain in the ass and a lot of work. But, PLEASE get involved. Watch your rigger pack it, understand how it works. Ask questions.

When you pull the pin or the cypres pops you should at least have a clue what is going on.

[tetra316 0]

What about currency? I've never been interested in getting my riggers ticket therefore I have no interest in packing my own reserve. And I would never get a ticket just to pack my own reserve. Practice makes perfect so I think you should be current if you are packing anyones reserve. You cannot ever be current if you are just packing your own. Sure you have to have 20 pack jobs to get the ticket and of course the reserve is similar to your main but there are still differences. I'd rather have someone who is very familiar with it inspect and pack it. They know what they are seeing due to experience, more than just once every 120 days.

But what do I know, just my opinion. Anyone else have any thoughts on currency and reserves?

[airtwardo 6]

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Hi auto,

You'll see more than this if you stay with this skydiving thing.

This has been going on since the mid-'60's; believe me, I know.

Jerry

I've 'heard' in the old dayz, a coin laid just right on a lead seal, and hit with a wooden mallet...gotta watch yer fingers though!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[kenneth21441 0]

I was refering to a non rigger doing this. With no Rigger on site watching them.

Kenneth Potter
FAA Senior Parachute Rigger
Tactical Delivery Instructor (Jeddah, KSA)
FFL Gunsmith

[tkhayes 140]

Packing a parachute is not rocket science. It never was. The main reasons we have stringent rules about who can pack a reserve is 1. It is your last chance, and 2. it is federal law (here in the USA).

There is no reason a competent person cannot pack their reserve parachute. There is a lot more to the process if you get into the inspection and materials, but as a general rule, anyone with some level of training and knowledge could do it.

In Canada, dropzones rroutinely hire students and such to pack student parachutes in the summer. Great summer jobs for teens, hard work, but good pay. Riggers still pack reserves, but the rules are more flexible since it is not bound by law, just bound by Sport rules (CSPA)

Packing a parachute is pretty easy. Yes, I know, everyone will tell horror stories, but the fact of the matter is there are plenty f horror stories about gear packed by real riggers too

So I am not surprised that there are people out there who pack their own reserves without being a rigger. no different that the guy who fixes his own airplane but has a mechanic sign it off.

TK

[riggerrob 561]

Riggers still pack reserves, but the rules are more flexible since it is not bound by law, just bound by Sport rules (CSPA)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Rules may be more flexible in Canada, but we work to the same standards as FAA-certified riggers.

During CSPA Rigger A Courses, I tell aspiring riggers that FAA Regulations may not be LAW in Canada, but they are considered "best practices."
If a Canadian rigger ever gets sued - and it can be proven that he ignored an American Federal Air Regulation - he is "on his own."

[riggerrob 561]

The SECOND time Steve Magnuson got caught repacking his reserve without a license, the FAA fined him $500.
It was not so much the lack of license that infuriated the FAA ... rather it was repacking a reserve with burn holes into a container with cracked stiffeners.

The rigger whose signature he forged was not amused either. Being called in front of the FAA DPRE and risking losing his license was embarrassing. The rigger eventually got off the hook by showing his rigger's logbook and swearing that he had not seen the (defective) rig in the last year.

[riggerrob 561]

I quit arguing with pencil packers.

Now I just charge them $60 every time my signature appears on their reserve card.
Hee!
Hee!

[riggerrob 561]

Good point.

Several local POPS routinely bring their reserves to me for repacks. These POPS used to hold Rigger A certificates, but have not packed a reserve for years. They would rather a CURRENT rigger (200+ repacks per year) work on their parachutes.

The other issue is dollars.
An hour or two of overtime at their regular job (i.e. air traffic controller) pays more than I charge and it would take them three or four hours to close a tight reserve.

[riggerrob 561]

Brazilian rules remind me of the old Canadian reserve repack endorsement.
That endorsement was available back when (1970s) everyone jumped military-surplus round main parachutes stuffed into military-surplus, 4-pin containers and everyone jumped military-surplus, round reserve parachutes stuffed into 2-pin containers. So there was not much difference in packing procedures.
Even the first generation of skydiving containers were merely brightly-colored copies of military patterns.
The Canadian reserve repack endorsement faded when square parachutes came in to fashion 30 years ago.
Sounds like Brazilian authorities are - slightly - behind the times.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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What about currency?

The inspection and repack is almost identical to what you do with BASE gear up to the point you put the canopy in the freebag, you have an instruction manual which covers specifics beyond that, and it doesn't take too much to remember the tricks specific to the few rigs you have sitting in your gear closet.

I went six months without packing any parachutes after tweaking my back and didn't forget how to pack my skydiving main. It's the same thing.

The counter-point I'd agree with is that it's not worth doing for the cost savings. It takes me four hours to crawl inside one of my reserves and squeeze it into the container. $60 is a screaming deal for that much labor.