Buying a Rigger's Ticket

[TowerTopper 0]

I was talking to a recently rated Sr. Rigger about some gear and was floored when she stated in the middle of our conversation that she didn't know what I was talking about when I ask a question about the Main Lift Webs of a container, she didn't know what the MLW are. I know she took the fast track route to getting her rating by paying someone to work in there loft to get her so called training. I'm not going to say which loft it was but they are well known for providing training to inspiring riggers. My bitch is that she's not a rigger but just a parachute packer. Someone just signed off her pack jobs for money and she got through the system not even knowing the basics! How can you trust a rigger like this?. I think lofts who practice this service should pay more attention to there so called training they provide and the people who they sign off. I blame her for the lack self education, the FAA for not having a more in depth testing program, and the loft who signed her letter stating she was qualified to be a rigger.

[kenneth21441 0]

I understand where you are coming from and i can only hope that someone will make it a point to push this person to learn the ins and outs of the variuos systems. Part names, material types etc.. Being a rigger is always a learning process. Having 18 plus years Im still learning, while its not like it was when I was up all night studing and learning the ropes. I still learn something new each day.

If not you then maybe go after the people who trained this person to ride them to learn the systems.

I just wished these schools would take the time to do things the right way and not rush them through these quickey courses...... My school was 13 plus weeks long but of course this was the US Army.. Rigging courses in my opion should be at least five weeks long with time for packing and knowledge and repairs etc.............
'

Just what I think here...

Ken..

Kenneth Potter
FAA Senior Parachute Rigger
Tactical Delivery Instructor (Jeddah, KSA)
FFL Gunsmith

[Unstable 8]

One thing I don't understand -
She can do the training at a loft - BS 20 some-odd reserve packjobs under the 'supervision' of a real rigger, and study for the written test (Not hard, but you have to study for it...).

My question: I can't think of a Single DPRE (at least not in this area) that would sign somebody off if they were not qualified to exercise the privileges of that license. How did she make it past her practical?
From personal experience, my practical exam for seat & back was close to 10 hours long and the man I took it from has a pretty even pass-flunk rate....

=========Shaun ==========

[2shay 0]

thats unerving and from anyones pov scary but like others said a continuous learning process riggers at least in my opinion are shown a safe and proven way to inspect pack and so forth all the rest are just pluses althogh i cannot commemt in this situation hope it helps bro

don't try your bullshit with me!!!

[diablopilot 2]

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My question: I can't think of a Single DPRE (at least not in this area) that would sign somebody off if they were not qualified to exercise the privileges of that license. How did she make it past her practical?

Problem is I can think of atleast 3 DPRE's that would do that.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Unstable 8]

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Problem is I can think of atleast 3 DPRE's that would do that.

Wow. That's scary. For what it matters, I have a lot of faith in those DPRE's that I've worked with - It's a shame you know people like that...

=========Shaun ==========

[darkwing 4]

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Problem is I can think of atleast 3 DPRE's that would do that.

That is a very extreme statement. In my world, if I thought I knew such DPREs, I would feel morally obligated to do something about it. Lives are at stake. So, what you gonna do? This isn't a case of gossip about people's private lives, this is a case where you clearly state that there is a serious, life threatening, breach of safety. The FAA wants to know, and so do I.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[squarecanopy 0]

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Problem is I can think of atleast 3 DPRE's that would do that.

That is a very extreme statement. In my world, if I thought I knew such DPREs, I would feel morally obligated to do something about it. Lives are at stake. So, what you gonna do? This isn't a case of gossip about people's private lives, this is a case where you clearly state that there is a serious, life threatening, breach of safety. The FAA wants to know, and so do I.

I second that. I have minimal experience with rigging but many intentionally safe years in my field of professional endeavor, and we all must take seriously a breach of training that puts a third party (sometimes unsuspecting) in jeopardy. You never know, the life you save may be mine.

Just burning a hole in the sky.....

[seal_S49 0]

When I took (and passed) the oral & written rigger's tests, the term "MLW" wasn't included in either. Does that mean my DPRE was incompetent? As much as I'd be shocked that a fellow rigger didn't know this term, I'm not sure I'd conclude that she or he would be unable to safely inspect, pack, and maintain (except for major repairs) an approved parachute.

[masterrig 1]

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My question: I can't think of a Single DPRE (at least not in this area) that would sign somebody off if they were not qualified to exercise the privileges of that license. How did she make it past her practical?

Problem is I can think of atleast 3 DPRE's that would do that.

________________________________

You too? I thought I was the only one who knew one of 'those' !


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

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Problem is I can think of atleast 3 DPRE's that would do that.

That is a very extreme statement. In my world, if I thought I knew such DPREs, I would feel morally obligated to do something about it. Lives are at stake. So, what you gonna do? This isn't a case of gossip about people's private lives, this is a case where you clearly state that there is a serious, life threatening, breach of safety. The FAA wants to know, and so do I.

_____________________________________

Been there... tried that! The FAA, is more interested in aircraft related things rather than parachute related things. DPRE's, seem to hold some kind of 'power' in the eyes of the FAA. The FAA, seems to prefer that we riggers handle our problems amongst ourselves. Leastwise, that's been my experience.


Chuck

[Unstable 8]

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to safely inspect, pack, and maintain (except for major repairs) an approved parachute.

Sounds like someone has been reading the FARs!!! You can tell when a Kid's been in the cookie jar - you can tell when a Rigger's been in the FAR's!

=========Shaun ==========

[USPA 0]

This was my first thought also, but later I realised "MLW" is a term also used on safety bulletins. Then again, any rigger or jumper handling materiaal and crosses an unknown term, should find his or her way in the manuals, pointer and handbook.

The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die...

[darkwing 4]

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Been there... tried that! The FAA, is more interested in aircraft related things rather than parachute related things. DPRE's, seem to hold some kind of 'power' in the eyes of the FAA. The FAA, seems to prefer that we riggers handle our problems amongst ourselves. Leastwise, that's been my experience.

Chuck

It is unfortunate that two people (at least) who believe that tickets are for sale also feel that there is only pain to be gained by outing the offenders. Still, I stick strongly to my view that it is ones moral obligation to protect the innocent victims here.

I would feel pretty bad if I didn't "out" the DPRE for this and somebody got hurt. At the very least couldn't you talk to the DPRE and let them know you believe there is a serious issue here? If they know they are under the spotlight they might change their ways.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[seal_S49 0]

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"MLW" is a term also used on safety bulletins.

Absolutely right! Sunpath's SP03 comes to mind--complete with a photograph identifying the MLW.

I can only speak of my own experience as a candidate being tested by a DPRE, but I hope that all practical testing involves the requirement to read mfr's instructions and specifications. I admire my DPRE for reading my rigger's log and deliberately making me pack a container with which I had no previous experience. This practice verifies that a candidate has the ability to read and follow the mfr's instructions which are provided during the test.

Most skydivers may not realize that the DPRE doing the testing may not be the same rigger(s) who trained the candidate being tested. There is a lot of equipment in this industry, and it's not possible to test everyone on everything. Comprehensive testing insures that a rigger understands the necessity to research any new task, follow all documentation, use standard rigging practices, and learn any new skills required.

As for the original post, I'm still willing to believe that it's possible for a senior rigger to effectively inspect a harness, etc. and complete a repack even if he or she earned a certificate without knowing the term "MLW."

I don't have enough experience to comment on the witch-hunting, DPRE-bashing posts.

BTW, great use of the English language!

[seal_S49 0]

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***to safely inspect, pack, and maintain (except for major repairs) an approved parachute.

Sounds like someone has been reading the FARs!!! You can tell when a Kid's been in the cookie jar - you can tell when a Rigger's been in the FAR's!

Dude, I LIVE in the FARs!

[masterrig 1]

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Been there... tried that! The FAA, is more interested in aircraft related things rather than parachute related things. DPRE's, seem to hold some kind of 'power' in the eyes of the FAA. The FAA, seems to prefer that we riggers handle our problems amongst ourselves. Leastwise, that's been my experience.

edit to add: By the way, I never did anything the way he told me to do it. I have always done my work according to manufacturer's instructions and Poynter's Parachute Manual(s).

Chuck

It is unfortunate that two people (at least) who believe that tickets are for sale also feel that there is only pain to be gained by outing the offenders. Still, I stick strongly to my view that it is ones moral obligation to protect the innocent victims here.

I would feel pretty bad if I didn't "out" the DPRE for this and somebody got hurt. At the very least couldn't you talk to the DPRE and let them know you believe there is a serious issue here? If they know they are under the spotlight they might change their ways.

_______________________________

In this case, it's a long story, too long to tell here but, to sum it up, he was totally arrogant and a jerk about it. His response to me was; "I'm a God-damned Master Rigger!" I turned to the FAA and their response was basically that of they had never had any complaints on him before. I worked with him for 3-years at a little dirt strip DZ and learned from him all the 'wrong' ways. I was a Senior Rigger at the time. I got the hell away from him and went-out on my own. I reported his 'crappy' work to the FAA as well as manufacturers. An example of some of his work was a leg-strap repair where he over-lapped the leg-strap webbing and sewed it with 'FF' thread and some wavy-gravy stitch pattern (I'd never seen)! When the rig got to my shop, I reported it to the manufacturer as well as the FAA... nothing was done. I think, the guy has finally 'retired'... We can only hope. I thought, I was doing the right thing but, I got a real good shot of reality.


Chuck

[stratostar 5]

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I was doing the right thing but, I got a real good shot of reality.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[masterrig 1]

You know... don't you?


Chuck