missing climbers

[ImGunnaJump 0]

I am going to jump back in for this one response because it does shed some light...

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... one of the more active Himalayan climbers, and her opinion was that carrying all the stuff (radios, satellite radio, beacons, oxygen, emergency supplies etc) slowed you down enough that you were at greater risk of being caught by weather. She'd usually take a radio that usually wouldn't work due to the cold. She could generally get a few messages off by storing the battery inside her suit - but knew it wouldn't last long enough for use during a sustained rescue

Well, this is the kind of answer I was looking for... I suspected that the weather may affect the equipment, I didn't realize just how much...I was thinking the equipment was built to withstand those types of temperatures, but obviously not.

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Was she idiotic? Was she not carrying a second battery/oxygen/avalanche transceiver because she wanted to be "cool?" No - she just thought that the tradeoff where she climbed wasn't worth it.

O.K.

Thanks for the info.


Godspeed to the 2 remaining climbers.

"...I've learned that while the "needs" in life are important (food, water, shelter), it's the "wants" in life (ice cream, chocolate, sex) that make it worth the effort." Kbordson

[Douva 0]

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Secondly, Douva, I never said the examples I used were "commonplace" - you read that into it,for whatever reason. I have actually seen people do those/say those things since I have been jumping, not often, thankfully, but I have seen it. And so I used those examples as a way to get my point across to an experienced climber who could shed some light on why this situation is unfolding the way it is for these climbers. I am allowed to ask questions, and I'll use whatever form I want to ask them.

For you to jump in and hype this up into something that it isn't, is wrong...but, boy, it sure did make you look "cool", didn't it??

Your whole point about trying to look cool was utter nonsense. Somewhere in your seventy jumps, you had somebody make a crack to you that they were disregarding recommended safety procedures because they wanted to "look cool." What does that have to do with this discussion of these climbers? It certainly doesn't indicate any kind of prevailing or even common attitude among skydivers or extreme/technical athletes as a whole. I've known skydivers who jumped unsafe, outdated gear, but I'm not going to conclude from that that there's a good chance these climbers might have been using unsafe, outdated gear, because the vast majority of climbers DON'T use unsafe, outdated gear. Throwing out silly, improbable "what ifs" is pointless and borderline childish. Your assertion that I criticized you to try to look cool was well over the borderline.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[Amazon 7]

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Yep, and the vast majority of deaths are during the "good" season. It can be deceiving. I've seen kids summit in not much more that a windbreaker and hunting boots. they got lucky. During the same time of the year, I've had my ass kicked pretty good a couple times when the weather went bad and had to boogie back down. Similarly, some of the winter routes are supposed to be an 8 hour climb. If the weather turns at the wrong time, though, you could be in big trouble.

I know of more than a few climbers who have used Mt Hood and a winter ascent to prepare for the far off places where they will be going far above the more oh so friendly 11,249'.

I think the major problem with Mt Hood.. is it just sits there so inviting and can be seen from all over Portland. People just do not give it the respect due a mountain that can and has killed a lot of people. It just looks SOOO easy...just a nice walkup. Its not like Mt Adams or Mt Rainier where the approach is harder and the routes are seen as more dangerous.

[TrophyHusband 0]

is adams harder than hood? while i wouldn't say that adams was easy, i was able to haul my fat ass to the top last summer. i haven't been abave mount hood meadows, but always thought that hood was a notch up from adams. if hood is in the same league as adams, i'm so there in august.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[MikeForsythe 0]

Just some information about today’s electronics available for outdoor emergencies.

PLB's are almost indestructible and can operate up to 20 hrs. at -40F, waterproof to 16ft for an hour and weights 12 oz.

Rescue Strobe Light: waterproof to 200ft, visible to 3 miles, operates for 8 hrs. at -40F and weighs 4oz.

Radios can very a lot and like Bill said not all are reliable. I carry a Yaesu VX-7 which allows global communications including direct communication with rescue craft. It is waterproof, operates for about 6 hrs. at -4F and weighs 9.2oz. I use a speaker mike so that I can keep it inside my thermal coat. I have used it in -35F weather with no problems.

I have never known a hiker that carrying an extra 12 oz. would make or break a trip. I do know of several instances that occur each year that having a PLB would have made a huge difference.

Just as a note to be fair. Today’s GPS/PLB's have only been out for a few years but are rapidly becoming a must have for outdoor adventures.

Hope this helps, stay safe,
Mike

Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

[Amazon 7]

Adams is a longer and harder approach. The south route in spring and early summer is just another "non-technical" walk up...but beware like all the Cascade volcanoes.... the weather can bite you ANY moth of the year.. go prepared.

I prefer the north side.. more glaciers... more interesting. the approach is up to Killen Creek Meadows... and camping at the foot of the Adams Glacier. The North Cleaver is between the Adams Glacier and the Lava Glacier. During the summer the setting sun to the NW gives some GREAT alpinglow and makes the glaciers actually look like they are flowing lava from the red glow.


If you want technical ice climbs... go for the Adams Glacier route. there is steep ice.. lots of crevasses ...

Beware if you are doing ANY of these get with people who know the mountain...and get the training necessary. Equipment is essential and knowing how to self arrest on these steep slopes is essential.

Its a wilderness area.. be prepared for a two day trip. Because it is more remote.. there are usually fewer people on the north side.... the south side can be a bit of a zoo...in summer.

[TrophyHusband 0]

i did the south spur last summer, camping at the lunch counter (9000'). i've also hiked to looking glass lake and spent the night, and thenbush whacked five miles down the creek to a logging road. my next goal is to park on the south side and hike around to killeen creek meadows and traverse the north cleaver to south spur. mt hood is also a goal in the next couple of years, but i was under the impression that even the south side was more technical than adams.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[Amazon 7]

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but i was under the impression that even the south side was more technical than adams.

Its steep above Crater Rock on the Hogsback route... to me that was exceedingly easy...but in the spring in good weather....our group did not even rope up.. just step after step...after step in crampons and the ice axe at the ready on good hard packed snow...Later in the summer as the snow melts off and you get more exposed rock.. then I would worry more about rockfalls in some areas.

Again the North side of the mountain is the most fun.
Less people...but it is STEEP.

Look up Cooper Spur. and Eloit Glacier.

[AggieDave 6]

Since I had no clue what a PLB was, I had to google. Here's a link for those who are also wondering.

http://www.rei.com/category/40002203.htm

Pretty neat, actually.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[LouDiamond 1]

Do a search in the BASE forum on PLB. I described the ins and outs as well as provided a good website that breaks everything down in laymans terms on what its capable of. I've personally used the ACR 406 GPS PLB at work and can recommend it for anyone who may find themselves in a situation where they might need help. It is less expensive than a satellite phone and alerts more people than any other device when activated.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[Guest 1010]

(ignoring climbing-whuffo remarks )

THIS is an excellent article with some details of Sunday's activities from Portland Mountain Rescue's vantage point. The cooperation between groups seems extraordinary, but may be normal for them, I don't know.


I'll respect their copyright (well mostly anyway), see the link for the whole article ...


"The [PMR] summit team held just below the summit as the Chinook helicopter from Hood River deposited 12 searchers onto the summit via hoist. The Chinook did not leave Hood River until our summit team pronounced the route as safe for a descent from the summit, so that the Chinook team would have a descent route in case the helicopter was unable to return to retrieve them."

You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two.

[ImGunnaJump 0]

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Just some information about today’s electronics available for outdoor emergencies....

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Hope this helps, stay safe,
Mike

[peckerhead 0]

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Just wondering, anyone else think it was pretty stupid of these guys to attempt a climb on Mt. Hood this time of the year?

I worked on the professional ski patrol on Mt. Hood for 7 years and I have been to the summit on several occasions. I have also been involved in many rescues on the mountain so I do know a little about the subject.

In my opinion, attempting Cooper Spur in December with a storm front coming in off the Pacific is not real smart. Most of the fatalities that have occured on this route over the years were in much better conditions. It is not a good place to be in a severe storm.

Climbing the moutain in winter is not uncommon but you have to be prepared, use caution, and pick the proper route. Climbers will do Hood in the winter to practice dealing with severe conditions and situations they might encounter on the larger peaks throughout the world. They may think Hood will be easy compared to other mountains they have climbed. I don't think these guys gave the mountain the respect it deserves.

The concern I always have when someone gets in trouble is the risk of injury or death to the rescuers. They didn't just put themselves at risk but also the scores of people who went up there looking for them, not to mention the cost.
Locator beacons may have helped but the conditions were to severe to go up there to find them until several days had passed. It was likely too late by then. It would definetly make finding the bodies easier.

I don't see this as being the same as whuffos thinking skydiving is stupid at all. Jumping in severe weather and getting in trouble would be a better comparison. Jumping into a thunderstorm is not very smart. (we have never done that before right?)Or how about jumping through a solid cloud layer and opening over a solid body of freezing water? (It has happened)

I have jumped in extremely shitty weather before and was lucky to make it down safely. Backing up over trees and rugged terrain is no fun. I don't do it anymore, there will always be a better day to go up.

[raftman 12]

On the upside: maybe they'll find D.B. Cooper!