Louisiana Tech Demo Jump

[tjm 0]

Does anyone have information on what happened? I talked to the feds and they banned some of the North Louisiana jumpers from jumping demos due to some guy taking out one or more band members during a LA Tech Football demo. (This is only what I have heard and have not read any official report, so this is not officially confirmed)

I hope the jumper/spectator was not seriously hurt.

Guys we need to be safe on the demos, especially in Louisiana. We have been catching a lot of grief with the feds lately. This is due to new management. Due to the above incident we are being crutinized even more. The feds are even attending are teams next stadium jump coming up to see how safely we perform. Our team leader has over 500 demos(almost all in Louisiana) and has devoted lots of his time over the past 20 years to maintaining good relations to the local feds. Lets not mess that up.

So, lets try and be safe out there and know our limits.

If you're not living on the edge; you're taking up too much room!

[BillyVance 34]

How much of the football field did the band take up? I did a demo into a high school game (the one that Bo Jackson went to school at), and our ground crew really had to prod and cajole the band leader to confine the band to as small an area as possible so that we had enough room to approach and land. The band leader was a dick though. I had barely enough room to land. I landed just yards away from the line of the girl dancers/cheerleaders and had to back up a bit so my canopy wouldn't settle down on top of the girls.

You didn't mention details of the band's proximity on the field. I'd like to know. Gotta remember, every demo has got to have dependable ground crew who are able to clear room for the jumpers.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[wrightskyguy 1]

All of that needs to be addressed before the plane takes off. How can you plan a demo if you don't know where everyone is going to be?

John Wright

World's most beloved skydiver

[riggerrob 558]

On a positive note, last night (Friday) three of us jumped into a high school football game in New Westminster (suburb of Vancouver) at sunset. We did hop-and-pops from 5,000 feet and landed on a nearly empty field. Only zebras were standing center field - waiting for us to deliver the game ball.
Everyone did stand-up landings - mid field - and the crowd loved it.

Organizer Bobby Magee said that what he liked the most was the calm in the airplane because every jumper on board was over 50, had done plenty of demos and was not going to "invent" any new stunts on the way down.

Successful demos are usually the simplest and leave the crowd begging for more.

[airtwardo 6]

the calm in the airplane because every jumper on board was over 50, had done plenty of demos and was not going to "invent" any new stunts on the way down.


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There is a lot to be said for experience!


A guy I've done hundreds of demos with summed it up rather well..."I don't always know exactly what the other guys are going to do, but I definitely know what they're NOT gonna do."

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[JohanW 0]

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There is a lot to be said for experience!

There's no fool like an old fool .. (I gave that T-shirt to my father!)

[IRT John] No plan survives two minutes in the trenches .. sh*t happens during demos. If ground crew can't clear the field, land off or don't jump. (You have ground-to-air comms for that, don't you? No absolute need to know before take-off.) But any truly unavoidable sh*t is supposed to happen to *us*, not spectators.

Johan.
I am. I think.

[airtwardo 6]

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There is a lot to be said for experience!

There's no fool like an old fool .. (I gave that T-shirt to my father!)

[IRT John] No plan survives two minutes in the trenches .. sh*t happens during demos. If ground crew can't clear the field, land off or don't jump. (You have ground-to-air comms for that, don't you? No absolute need to know before take-off.) But any truly unavoidable sh*t is supposed to happen to *us*, not spectators.

Sometimes shit happens post exit and air to ground comm. isn't practical or available...we give the head of the ground crew a bucket of sand and a smoke bomb, if we need to abort while under canopy, pop the smoke, we'll head to our alternate.

If the smoke thing isn't practical, a big 'X' with yellow WDI paper in the target area works too.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[JohanW 0]

Sounds like pretty effective ground-to-air communication to me. Something like that's what I meant anyway. Radios are overrated.
For demos, we have a T which can be rearranged to an X. Simple, effective.

Johan.
I am. I think.

[cameroncockrell 0]

tjm, you might want to get your information for a better source than your so called "feds" contact.

I am a member of the ground crew that worked that demo. None of us have been banned from doing demo jumps what so ever!!!! We have not even been contacted by the FAA or anyone concerning this NON-ISSUE. I almost got in a car wreck a couple of months ago, because someone pulled out in front of me…should I have my driver’s license taken away??? THERE WAS NO INCIDENDT!!!! Actually I think our jumpers should have been commended for the way they reacted to the amount of field they had to land on.

Let me explain what actually happened at that demo. Instead of going by what your friend heard you cousin’s, dog groomer told the trash man. The day before the demo we contacted the person in charge of pre-game events. We instructed them we needed at least 60 yards of the football field, not including the end zone. During pre-game, we were in contact with the person in charge and the band director. We again confirmed with them that we would have the required landing space. They agreed. Our ground crew was in place, the band was in there designated place, and our time window had come, our jumpers exited the aircraft. Seconds after they exited, the band started marching down the field, into our landing area. We turned to locate the band director, he was nowhere to be found. We started trying to get the band leaders attention to divert the band, by then it was too late and they were completely in our landing area. The band started marching back to the other end of the field. When the last band member crossed the 10 yard line, heading away from our landing area, that was when our first jumper landed on the field, right on the side line, between the band and the side line crowd. He did an amazing job with what he had to work with. As far as you saying due to some guy taking out one or more band members, please let inform you what ACTUALLY HAPPED. I was no more than 15 yards away from where he landed. The second jumper touched down 15 yards behind the band and slid 10 to 12 yards. His canopy fell down in front of the band member in the last row. That band member was never contacted by the skydiver and never fell down. She had to step over and go around the canopy and lines that fell around her. The remaining jumpers landed with plenty of room. Actually they landed with less room that we initially started out with, because the band leaders on the field, were standing at the 50 yard line. We had plenty of ground crew in place at all four corners of our landing area, plus 3 to 4 other roaming around. Next time, we will place one ground crew member with the band director and one with each of the band leaders on the field, preventing them from marching into our landing area. We have jumped into this stadium dozens of times, with no issues. The second skydiver to land has been jumping into this stadium since the 70’s.

You also said, “Due to the above incident we are being crutinized even more.” Why would your so called “feds” contact “crutinize” or scrutinize you all for a demo that we put on? Why were you all given grief and not the actual DZ that legally filed the paper worth with the FAA month prior to the demo? They had our name…they had our contact info. We were never contacted…maybe that’s because nothing really happed.

[mwfriday 0]

also to add to this. Our dz welcomes the FAA to visit us at anytime and inspect the plane, rigs or anything else they would like. I was also on the tech ground crew. No one was hurt. And we have not heard anything negative from the FAA so I do not know where this is coming from. so lets not have any idle mis-spectulation.

[JumpRu 14]

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The second jumper touched down 15 yards behind the band and slid 10 to 12 yards. His canopy fell down in front of the band member in the last row.

I’m sure you guys did well… I was not there and did not see anything. But this phrase requires some explanation. The only reasons to land like this would be downwind landing on highly loaded elliptical after at least 270 degrees turn. At list that is what I do from time to time on a hop&pop load at the far corner of DZ where no one can see me

[cameroncockrell 0]

He was jumping a Pilot 210 loaded 1.28. The second skydiver to land has been jumping since the 70's, and I have never seen him make a 180 degree turn to landing. He just does not do that, he does not even like landing like that.

I was not in his position and I was not the one pulling the toggles, but I'm pretty sure the last thing he was thinking, after looking down at his landing area and seeing part of the band in it, was, "Yeah, let's do a 270 degree turn to swoop in. I want to see how many bowling pins (band members) I could take out."

He's not stupid.

[airtwardo 6]

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The second jumper touched down 15 yards behind the band and slid 10 to 12 yards. His canopy fell down in front of the band member in the last row.

I’m sure you guys did well… I was not there and did not see anything. But this phrase requires some explanation. The only reasons to land like this would be downwind landing on highly loaded elliptical after at least 270 degrees turn. At list that is what I do from time to time on a hop&pop load at the far corner of DZ where no one can see me

I wasn't there so I didn't see anything either, but it sounds like from the explanation of events given by those who were there, that this was a non-event.

I've jumped a similar canopy as mentioned into several stadiums and depending upon the winds and stadium layout, I can certainly understand how every landing isn't always a stand-up.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[fcajump 153]

Sounds like the jumpers and crew did what had to be done at the time given the changes that happened beyond their control.

Its this type of thing that has lead my team to develop two additional visual signals for the jumpers already under canopy:

- "use extreme caution" (for things such as a non-participating aircraft cutting though)

- "Landing area unsuitable" (for things like audience/kids/pets/bands that get out onto the field)

I have also circled while my Crew Chief "discussed" the last minute changes with the sponsor and explained that one of the signals available was "CANCEL" if things were not safe.

My usual Crew Chief is a quiet and non-confrontational person... until she is concerned that her team is being endangered... then Lord Help You!!

As to the FSDO/FEDs... yes, I can easily believe that bad press (even wrong press) can cause a mid-level FSDO manager to more carefully review and/or not approve the next application that comes in. It is my understanding that the FSDO reviewer is not enforcement (that's another group within the FAA), they are paperwork pushers/approvers. And they don't always see us as separate groups/teams, in some of their eyes we are all "crazy skydivers who don't respect life/limb/safety". It is for this reason that we need to keep after each other for safety. I have met FAA reps that would just rather shut it all down.

Blue ones guys,
JW

PS - yet another reason I like to use large canopies that can be sunk into small areas for demos. When the field shrinks its nice to be able to put it straight down even if it is right next two people in the wrong place.

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[tjm 0]

Sorry for the late response (I didn't keep up well with the forum), but anyways.

My intention was not to bash you guys or to suggest incompitence. I clearly started off with a question asking for information and ended with clearly stating that I had no proof or confirmation of what happened and that is only what I have heard. Hence, the question asking for information. Sounds like you guys pulled it off well considering.

I know what its like to have things go not as planned on the ground, as I did a ULL demo in August with people taking up about 3/8 of the field with a big ass Louisiana state flag. Only they were not stationary and were moving all around that one side of the field. So, seeing this and knowing I was goin to overshoot the fifty yard by about five or so yards I was forced to take an empty side line in case they creeped a little closer (the others landed shorter after seeing my pattern as I was first down).

But we did catch some grief from your near miss though (obviously not from you guys hitting someone, I know that now, but it was a close call), from the Baton Rouge Office who, like I said is under new and more stringent management.

Didn't mean to come off as the pissed off speculator. Well anyways I have to go to class.

Cameron, If your ever around Lafayette, we have a new DZ around.

-tj

If you're not living on the edge; you're taking up too much room!

[tjm 0]

Just to add my point with the ULL demo story is that before even getting close to an eratic crowd you have to realize the spectator comes first(not to say your jumper did not; I'm just saying). Just as a pilot about to crash in an airshow, save the crowd first then yourself. I made this decision at a low altitude(no one was aware they were doing that with the flag) but we designated the empty sideline as a last second kind of out do to this possibilty.

Good luck at future demos

If you're not living on the edge; you're taking up too much room!