Altimeter advice?

[mjosparky 3]

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Specifically between the FT-50 and Galaxy 3.

I think you will be happier with the Galaxy in the long run. They have field reps. that are at different DZ and boogies and will give you altimeter a check up for free. As long as I have been around the FT-50 is an unknown quantity.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[phoenixlpr 0]

Sparky is back again!

[LordRatner 0]

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(how anyone could have difficulty reading a number is a mystery to me), and quite frankly, I find the concept of a skydiver who is unable to adapt to a digital readout with huge numbers quite scary.

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I find the concept of a skydiver with 41 jumps lecturing someone with Tom’s experience on what is the only right altimeter to jump with just a bit arrogant. He has survived in this sport longer than you have been alive. (Probably)

If you get an analog, get it because you like it better than a digital. No other reason. If you have ever looked at a digital watch and been able to tell what time it is, you'll do just fine on a digital altimeter.

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For 30 years I have worn an Altimaster II for reasons other then I like it. I think it is a better choice. If it is broken it is obvious, it doesn’t need batteries, it is easier to see by me and others in freefall with me, it only costs $180 and comes with a 10 year guarantee. I have a couple that are over 20 years old and still work fine. I don't know of any didital that is 10 years old and still in service.

I was never lecturing Tom, merely giving my opinion, which is what a forum is for last I checked. Please try not to be so defensive.

Again, anyone should get an altimeter they are comfortable with. But every thread about this subject turns into the same thing: Older skydivers giving reasons that are 100% at odds with the very philosophies they subscribe to. For example:

Batteries: I look at the battery meter before every jump. And in a sport where almost everyone on the plane checks their straps, rings, handles, AAD, zippers, etc. 3 times or more, I don't see why looking at the battery meter sounds crazy. Now, if you just hate buying batteries, cool. Go analog.

Broken Altimeter: How is an analog easier to tell? If it stops moving, and you only glance at it, errors can occur. If a digital breaks, it goes blank, or static, or if the screen cracks, there are black splotches. Even if it were to break and display the same number on the screen, I don't see how that's any different than a broken analog.

Cost: That really doesn't have anything to do with the discussion. No one is going to try and buy it off you in free fall.

As I said before, go with whatever you're comfortable with. But I see a lot of misconceptions and fear regarding digital altimeters.

The computer came out, and famous experienced authors refused to use it because the typewriter was "better," just because.

People don't like change, it's human nature. All I'm saying is that the reasons listed for sticking to an analog altimeter, though true and factual points, do not make sense when compared to the safety philosophies taught in the first class on skydiving.

I never said anyone should go digital, and I never lectured anyone, as you are lecturing me. I said you shouldn't avoid digital for the wrong reasons, and questioned a philosophy that isn't backed.

[mjosparky 3]

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though true and factual points, do not make sense when compared to the safety philosophies taught in the first class on skydiving.

What doesn't make sense is the statement above. What "philosophies" were you taught that would make these points not make sense?

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[phoenixlpr 0]

I have both. I used both. I still recommend an analog for you.

[LordRatner 0]

Sorry for being unclear. The main philosophy is redundant gear checks.

Batteries: Why use an AAD if it uses batteries? You check before you jump, right? Same with a digi.

By the logic given for staying away from a digital alti, anyone with less than 100 jumps should be jumping a 290 student rig on static line.

I got my Neptune and was terrified because everyone told me I was moving too fast, and I was going to confuse myself, etc etc etc. They were wrong, and I'm not really a very smart person, but there was absolutely nothing difficult about using a digi.

Sure, it's true that batteries can die, and screens can crack, and lcd screens can be mildly difficult to read in a track, but if these are legitimate reasons to avoid a very proven device, I can't see why people would be jumping out of a plane in the first place, because canopies can fail, and AADs can break, and closing pins can be put in wrong, and pilots can be uncocked... but these are all things we check for, and batteries on an alti don't seem like an irrational check to add to that list. If we wanted a fail-safe hobby, we'd go bowling.

Bottom line is, you have your beliefs, I have mine, and that's what this forum is for. I'd love to get in a heated debate with you on this, because in the end I know there would be no hard feelings, and jumping with someone with your experience level would still be a great learning experience, even if I pulled at "3.5" and you pulled at "half-past-3" :D

[kelpdiver 2]

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I was never lecturing Tom, merely giving my opinion, which is what a forum is for last I checked. Please try not to be so defensive.

The hell you weren't. Look at your language: "I find the concept of a skydiver who is unable to adapt to a digital readout with huge numbers quite scary."

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Batteries: I look at the battery meter before every jump. And in a sport where almost everyone on the plane checks their straps, rings, handles, AAD, zippers, etc. 3 times or more, I don't see why looking at the battery meter sounds crazy.

Battery meters have been very poor for lithium batteries, whose voltage stays constant until very near the end. The very reason it is a preferred tech for power makes it very hard to calculate end of life. If you read the revision history for the software on your Neptune you'll see a few references to changes to the battery metering (4 different updates). It's not for no reason. People had neptunes act oddly in the sky due to low power. Solved with a new battery, typically, and the people at Alti-2 have contined to fine tune the firmware to imrprove predictability.

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Broken Altimeter: How is an analog easier to tell? If it stops moving, and you only glance at it, errors can occur. If a digital breaks, it goes blank, or static, or if the screen cracks, there are black splotches. Even if it were to break and display the same number on the screen, I don't see how that's any different than a broken analog.

Actually, you shouldn't presume that the failure will be obvious. I've had some wild failures with diving computers. Sitting at 60ft, I push the button to turn on the backlight. The depth meter rockets
down to 140ft, back to me, and now has 62 minutes of decompression time required. I got real good at pulling the battery.

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The computer came out, and famous experienced authors refused to use it because the typewriter was "better," just because.

The computer offers a real advantage over typewritters for most people. Provided they don't need to fill out forms and that they do have access to a printer.

But outside of the data logging characteristics, which mind you aren't fully accurate anyway, the digital does not offer any advantage over the analog altimeter in its primary function - helping the jumper remain altitude aware. Only by using it as an audible do you gain.

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People don't like change, it's human nature. All I'm saying is that the reasons listed for sticking to an analog altimeter, though true and factual points, do not make sense when compared to the safety philosophies taught in the first class on skydiving.

If you believe in KISS (keep it simple, stupid) as a philosophy in the sport, you tend towards devices with fewer failure points.

Hell, I may violate that one and switch from a galaxy to a Alti-track, but I will do a few jumps with both to sanity check the electric one.

[phoenixlpr 0]

After one jump, I had -40 meter on my digital alti.
Is that a good news???

I had no other problem, because I have realized before.

[mjosparky 3]

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Bottom line is, you have your beliefs, I have mine,

This is one point we can agree on. The big difference is not necessarily numbers but time. My “beliefs” are based on 30 years of watching new jumpers and new gadgets come and go. Yours are based on less than one hour in the air. Not meant as a flame, just the way it is.

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and lcd screens can be mildly difficult to read in a track,

This is a good example of what I am referring to. If you are in a good track position it is not “mildly difficult” but impossible to read and altimeter mounted on the back of your hand. Try it, stand with your hands at your sides, palms facing forward. Put your chin on your chest and read what you altimeter says, digital or analog. I wear an altimeter on my right MLW just above the chest strap. I can see it in any freefall position and other jumping with me can also see it. (see attachment)

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because in the end I know there would be no hard feelings,

Carrying a “grudge” on the net is something I reserve for the few brain dead morons that have done everything in their power to earn the “grudge”. And in most cases it ends up that they are just fun to play with.

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everyone told me I was moving too fast,

When this happens, slow down and ask yourself why. They have nothing to gain by telling you that.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[FlyinDawg 0]

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After one jump, I had -40 meter on my digital alti.
Is that a good news???

I had no other problem, because I have realized before.

Is it best to have altimeter on wrist instead on chest since easy to read? I feel more comfortable to read it on wrist.

Flyin' Dawg or SkyDog


"To understand is to forgive, even oneself."

[phoenixlpr 0]

It depends.

As a licensed skydiver its up to you.

You have to have a chest mounted altimeter if you are a student in Finland.

[JohanW 0]

I have my palms up in a track (too many birdman jumps

For sunset jumps, I usually take my analog along, the digital readout would need a backlight, that would eat batteries the analog is the better tool for the job. Unless I'm swooping. For that, the Neptune rocks.

Johan.
I am. I think.

[mjosparky 3]

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I have my palms up in a track (too many birdman jumps

For sunset jumps, I usually take my analog along, the digital readout would need a backlight, that would eat batteries the analog is the better tool for the job. Unless I'm swooping. For that, the Neptune rocks.

At 41 jumps, I doubt he is ready for most of those scenarios.

I just think is much simpler to use one for all of the above.
The picture I attached to my other post was just before making a Wing Suit jump.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[bigdad510 1]

I was hesitant to go to a digi, but I bought a neptune and I love it. I like having the ability to read exactly what altitude I'm at under canopy and closer to the ground. Couldn't really do that with much accuracy.

Another thing to point out is no matter which one you get, you have to make sure it's zeroed before each jump. Weather conditions throughout the day effect altimeters. What was "zero" in the morning may be 100 feet by the afternoon due to pressure changes with weather.

I would try both and see what you like. I have both and always will, just as backups.

Brad

[bofh 0]

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Another thing to point out is no matter which one you get, you have to make sure it's zeroed before each jump. Weather conditions throughout the day effect altimeters. What was "zero" in the morning may be 100 feet by the afternoon due to pressure changes with weather.

Do you really rely that much upon the altimeter that 100 feet matters to you? During the ride to altitude, the weather may change so much that the altimeter is 100 feet off. When the batteries are bad on the neptune, it can be that much off too.

Checking that the altimeter is zerod is of course an important thing to do when one has entered the plane, but 100 feet off should IMO be expected and planned for while under canopy.

[kallend 1,683]

I just replaced my FT50, which had been dropped one time too many, with an AltiTrack from L&B (makers of Pro-Track audibles). It has a digital read out on one side and a traditional analog face (electronically driven) on the other. Not enough experience with it yet to give an opinion.

In principle the electronic pressure sensors should be easier to calibrate and maintain calibrated than the aneroid mechanism in the mechanical altimeters, as well as having less hysteresis. However, a lot of folks seem to confuse apparent digital precision with actual accuracy. Just because a digital alti reads 5281 ft doesn't imply that you are actually at 5281ft.

All altimeters are susceptible to position errors due to the airflow around a skydiver's body.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[DougH 270]

I bought a Altitrack the other day as well. I love it so far, but 5 jumps is far from a full evaluation. I lent it to some one for night jumps who said the back light was great, and being able to play back my jumps seems to impress every one else, even though I think it is less than usefull.

It appears to read high on the ride to alt, but once at alt it is comparable to all the other altimeters zero'd at the same place. I don't like that it self zeros however.

It is cool to see where the device thinks you finally stoped the FF. 3500 container opening, plus a pilot snivel master 188, puts me at <2750

I would still take a altiII galaxy to altitude any day, they were awesome when went through AFF and my subsequent student progression, even the abused student ones.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[JohanW 0]

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At 41 jumps, I doubt he is ready for most of those scenarios.

I just think is much simpler to use one for all of the above.
The picture I attached to my other post was just before making a Wing Suit jump.

At 41 jumps, just get an analog.

Then, as you progress, you may find you want more or different functions. Buy another, different one. Before you know it, you have 5 of them, all different, and you can pick the right one for the job *and* loan one to somebody )

Worked for me. I stock up on gloves, too.

There is something to be said for having one tool that is right for everything, but I when I started collecting, there were no recording "analogs", and I wasn't initiating any big turns by altimeter either. The choice is harder these days, there are more to choose from ..

Johan.
I am. I think.

[tdog 0]

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If it is broken it is obvious, it doesn’t need batteries....

I don't know about that... I had an analog that broke. It read 2,000 feet high, and was moving with me in freefall... It was a solo fun jump working on some freefly skills. Since my speed was dynamic, my "body clock" could have been really off...

I had an audible and eyes that told me time to pull. If I had not trained my eyes, or had a backup, and believed the analog... I would have pulled low...

I took the analog on a few more jumps to see what it was doing. At 11K or higher, it just kept climbing, as if the plane was climbing... But it wasn't, so - the length of time on jump run would determine the error margin.

Made me think I like the concept of a digital that "fails safe" to a blank screen, an error code, or something... So I know, "I am no longer altitude aware - pull."

Just my two cents... I still BTW jump an analog, but since I am buying a digital to better dial in my canopy work, I kind of regret not doing it sooner...

I honestly have done coach jumps with students post AFF with neptunes, and I did not mind... They knew how to read it...

(For the record, I had a Neptune change modes on me in freefall and it became useless - but again, I simply looked over at other jumper's neptunes and continued the 4way... I knew it was "not useable" as opposed to not knowing the dial was 2,000 feet off... Broken analog scared me. Not useable digital I adapted to safely.)