Velocity Hard Opennings !!! The ANSWER

[Perriscicaba 0]

Hi everyone, no long ago I post about my very hard openning with my Velocity, lots of you send me answers and now I believe I havwe the real Answer.

After change the steering lines in my canopy the follows jumps is absolute briliant, the answers was, wrap the lines very tight and enough to dont have one D bag lock and never let to much line loss between the last Wrap in the rubberband and the risers.

That is it guys, soft opennings with longs swoooooop.

Mauricio

[ntacfreefly 0]

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never let to much line loss between the last Wrap in the rubberband and the risers.

Careful. Leave too little and you increase the chances of bag spin.

Glad you got the canopy to open the way you want it to.

Blues,
Ian

To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu

It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

[marks 0]

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Hi everyone, no long ago I post about my very hard openning with my Velocity, lots of you send me answers and now I believe I havwe the real Answer.

After change the steering lines in my canopy the follows jumps is absolute briliant, the answers was, wrap the lines very tight and enough to dont have one D bag lock and never let to much line loss between the last Wrap in the rubberband and the risers.

That is it guys, soft opennings with longs swoooooop.

Mauricio

you sure that changing the steering lines didnt fix it?

[parachutist 1]

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you sure that changing the steering lines didnt fix it?

Ditto Change of stow point on the brake line just 1" can make a big difference in opening style

[MrHixxx 0]

Double ditto. I raised mine 2" and it made a huge difference, much softer and a lot less searching...

-Hixxx

death,as men call him, ends what they call men
-but beauty is more now than dying’s when

[Perriscicaba 0]

Thanks guys again, all ways we can have some to learn. About change the lines I don't believe was the solution, I believe only the wrap in the lines make some (Big) diference.

However, Thanks a lot everybody, any change I will let Know.

Mauricio.

[hookitt 0]

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I believe only the wrap in the lines make some (Big) diference.

I seriously doubt that.

Keeping the bag closed until line stretch, whether or not the rest of the lines are stowed, will result in the same opening.

Replacing lines will often make a dramatic change in the way a canopy opens.

Many of us have experimented with line stows. For an entire season, I personally used good locking stows and either didn't stow the rest of the lines or left the very loosely stowed. The openings were consistent no matter how the lines were stowed.

mjosparky uses a back with locking stows and a pouch. There are many other bags similar to mjosparky's in daily use.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[bob.dino 0]

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Many of us have experimented with line stows. For an entire season, I personally used good locking stows and ... didn't stow the rest of the lines

Where did you place the excess? In the tray? Did you rotate the bag so the grommets faced the BOC? If so, did this create any issues with moving the lines around?

[mjosparky 3]

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Many of us have experimented with line stows. For an entire season, I personally used good locking stows and ... didn't stow the rest of the lines

Where did you place the excess? In the tray? Did you rotate the bag so the grommets faced the BOC? If so, did this create any issues with moving the lines around?

I made this bag and have well over 1000 jumps on it without any problems.
I agree that it was the brake line change that made the difference in openings. By changing the brake setting you can dramatically affect how a canopy opens.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Ronaldo 0]

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I made this bag and have well over 1000 jumps on it without any problems.

Did you notice any wear caused by the Velcro?

Engineering Law #5: The most vital dimension on any plan drawing stands the most chance of being omitted

[mjosparky 3]

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I made this bag and have well over 1000 jumps on it without any problems.

Did you notice any wear caused by the Velcro?

I cheat, I use Dacron lines. I have made a couple like that one only using baby snaps. Seems to work fine.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Ronaldo 0]

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I cheat, I use Dacron lines. I have made a couple like that one only using baby snaps. Seems to work fine.

Cool, I have a few more questions if you don't mind:
Did you have any particular reason for making this modified bag? Was it to speed up packing, reduce line twists or just to prove everybody that line stows have little or no influence on the openings.
Also, what were your impressions through all these jumps (cleaner and faster deployments, lower incidence of line twists or no change at all)?
Have you ever tried some kind of tuck tab design?
BTW, nice sewing job!

Safe skies!

Engineering Law #5: The most vital dimension on any plan drawing stands the most chance of being omitted

[mjosparky 3]

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Did you have any particular reason for making this modified bag? Was it to speed up packing, reduce line twists or just to prove everybody that line stows have little or no influence on the openings

Mainly because I got tired of people say "line dump" caused hard openings and you need to double stow the lines. Plus I bore easily.

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Also, what were your impressions through all these jumps

There is little if any change in the way the canopy deploys using this bag. Line twists were nerve an issue with this canopy but I think this bag help prevent bag “whip” which contributes to line twists and tension knots.

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Have you ever tried some kind of tuck tab design?

No I have never tried tuck tabs, they are a real pain in the ass to design right. I have made a couple with “baby” snaps and they seemed to work well.

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BTW, nice sewing job!

Thank you.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[riggerrob 558]

Back in the 1980s, I jumped a couple of main d-bags similar to mjosparky's.
One was retrofitted to an old Eze-Flyer (Wonderhog copy) and the other was ordered new with a Mirage Lady Astra.
My primary motivation was to speed up stowing lines.
I did hundreds of jumps - with lines stowed in the pocket - on both rigs and never had excessively hard openings .. well, not any harder than you could expect with a Strato-Cloud.
Hee!
Hee!
The most important factor in d-bag design is keeping the last two or three locking stows tight, so that the canopy never sees air until line stretch.
I suspect that a lot of skydivers use a dozen loose stows to do the same job as two tight stows.

[Martini 0]

For years I've been promoting the concept that stows below the locking stows have little to do with canopy inflation. I use fairly loose stows, just enough tension to keep the lines organized. Lately though I've been rethinking my strategy. I still feel the same about canopy openings but I suspect that having some line tension on the d-bag might help keep the d-bag from spinning. It would be nice to see some video that could confirm/deny this theory. I plan to increase tension on my stows to test my theory (only on my wingsuit rig though).

Sometimes you eat the bear..............

[mjosparky 3]

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but I suspect that having some line tension on the d-bag might help keep the d-bag from spinning.

Tight stow if anything contribute the bag spinning by producing "bag whip". With a line stow pocket the lines play out in line with the bridle and PC..

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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[Martini 0]

***Tight stow if anything contribute the bag spinning by producing "bag whip". With a line stow pocket the lines play out in line with the bridle and PC..***

Yeah, I know a couple of guys using pocket bags and I understand the theory. But so far it seems lto be only a theory. I'm still going to try tighter stows for now but I'll try to talk Kelly at Velocity out of a pocket bag or make my own. I don't have problems on my freefall rig, only on my wingsuit rig. Probably body position anyway.

Sometimes you eat the bear..............

[mjosparky 3]

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But so far it seems lto be only a theory.

I have got well over 1,000 jumps on that bag and almost all reserves are deployed in that manner. At what point does it stop being theory?

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[phoenixlpr 0]

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I have got well over 1,000 jumps on that bag and almost all reserves are deployed in that manner. At what point does it stop being theory?

It's not a theory, but it's not for everyone.

[Martini 0]

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I have got well over 1,000 jumps on that bag and almost all reserves are deployed in that manner. At what point does it stop being theory?



I don't believe that the bandless stow method on a reserve freebag was designed to address line twists but then again I'm not a rigger. Since several things can occur to cause the bag to spin I don't see how low/no tension on the lines during linestretch can help control the bag. It will stop being theory if clear evidence in use becomes obvious (unlikely for a while since so few pocket d-bags are in use on mains) or research and testing demonstrates an advantage. I hope you're right though since I dislike rubber bands

Sometimes you eat the bear..............

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[parachutist 1]

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I don't see how low/no tension on the lines during linestretch can help control the bag.

When your lines are extending and the bag is ascending relative to you, there is nothing holding the bag ponted in 1 direction. The bag's going to turn whichever way it gets pulled.

So instead of holding it pointed in 1 specific direction, maybe the only thing you really can do is try to eliminate the forces that pull it one way or the other (such as stows) The fewer stows, then the less chance for the bag to get pulled one way or the other. That's my reasoning on why I subscribe to Sparky's theory.

Chris

[davelepka 4]

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I don't see how low/no tension on the lines during linestretch can help control the bag.

OK, then try this - double stow all of your line stow bands, then with a friend holding your rig on the floor, pull the bridle, and slide the bag along the floor and watch as the lines unstow. See how it wobbles from side to side? See how a hang-up from a stow could throw the bag into a spin?

Now do the same with a freebag, BASE or CRW canopy with a tail pocket, or a main d-bag with a line stow pounch. As you pull it back to line strech, you'll notice that the lines play out of the pocket without creating any movement of the bag (or canopy).

[mjosparky 3]

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I don't believe that the bandless stow method on a reserve freebag was designed to address line twists but then again I'm not a rigger.

Just curious, what leads you to believe that was not the design goal?

What parachutist and davelepka are referring to is what I meant about line stows creating “bag whip” which in turn can cause the bag to spin.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Martini 0]

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OK, then try this - double stow all of your line stow bands, then with a friend holding your rig on the floor, pull the bridle, and slide the bag along the floor and watch as the lines unstow. See how it wobbles from side to side? See how a hang-up from a stow could throw the bag into a spin?

Now do the same with a freebag, BASE or CRW canopy with a tail pocket, or a main d-bag with a line stow pounch. As you pull it back to line strech, you'll notice that the lines play out of the pocket without creating any movement of the bag (or canopy).

Trust me, I'm aware of the stow/wobble argument and the comparison to freestows. The floor test may even be representative of a real deployment although I wouldn't take it for granted. The floor test isn't at 120 mph and doesn't have a 120 mph wind to go with it among other things. I also believe that very tight stows are a poor idea but a bigger problem is uneven tension from one stow to another. As I mentioned I use very light stow tension already and have plenty of twisted openings. Really what I'm getting at here is that freestows offer zero control over the bag but also don't likely cause problems. Band stows might produce wobble but may help control the bag through tension. I just got off the phone with a rig manufacturer who is checking out the freestow bag but doesn't offer them on their rigs yet. Apparently they are waiting on videos of openings to determine the effectiveness of a freestow bag before marketing them. In the mean time I plan on checking out the effectiveness of slightly more tension on my stows to see if my openings change for better or worse.

Sometimes you eat the bear..............

[Martini 0]

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In Reply To
I don't believe that the bandless stow method on a reserve freebag was designed to address line twists but then again I'm not a rigger.

Just curious, what leads you to believe that was not the design goal?

What parachutist and davelepka are referring to is what I meant about line stows creating “bag whip” which in turn can cause the bag to spin.

My understanding of the bandless freebag is that it is designed to reduce the possibility of malfunctions like baglock. Simplicity and reliability seem to be goals. If freestows help reduce twists that's good too. BTW three of my five reserve rides have been line twisted, one of them was severe. Then again I was spinning pretty good as well. Naturally I blamed my rigger. Really I'd like to think that the freestow bag is a good solution and I plan on experimenting with it. I'm just not willing to accept the current arguments as fact. I also keep in mind that no rig manufacturer that I know of is offering a freestow/pocket main d-bag. That tells me that the manufacturers aren't buying the idea yet either.

Sometimes you eat the bear..............