rigging manual

[councilman24 36]

Don't worry. Sandy got paid.

Now we all get to debate what we don't agree with. Only found a few things so far.

Also I see an up side and a down side to this. The up side. We have a FAA reference for procedures we should be able to refer a FSDO to. Down side. If the FAA inspectors think this is the only way to do things.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[Samurai136 0]

Very Cool, Guys!

Took less than 10 minutes to download.

I want to read it now, but I need to goto Safety Day.

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[jdatc 0]

It's funny. I just got a copy at work today. And I log on and read that everyone was having trouble finding it.....

The Facility chief knew I was a jumper, so he brought me down the book... One more piece of FAA literature for the bookshelf.

I think it is definetly something that even if you aren't a rigger you should check out... Hmm... Maybe later on I could learn to rig, I could use another cool FAA license to add to my collection.....

[mjosparky 3]

Thank you Terry.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[councilman24 36]

Hey, all I did was be on the computer first to find it.

As I said the new entertainment will be bashing it. Dave DeWolf has already made some comments to the FAA. For the most parts it pretty good. But for many things it's ONE way out of many that are acceptable. I just worried about the FAA thinking that this is the ONLY way.

And I used the color laser printer at work to print myself a copy. Still took 30-45 minutes.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[leapdog 0]

I just got back in town yesterday and just got to where I could catch up.

Excellent work!

Thank!

Gunnery Sergeant of Marines
"I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

[PhreeZone 15]

Anyone notice that Sandy is defining a Line replacement as a Senior or Master rigger job? Same with Replacing the control lines. Does this mean since it is an FAA doc they now seniors can do a reline with no issue?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[councilman24 36]

Who the hell knows? I did notice this and other things. Note that it talks about replacing one suspension line. Not a total reline. And specifically applies to mains. Sandy does not ever cover square reserve line replacement. There are a lot of things like this that may be up for debate. This is a monumental task writing this. There are ommisions, one version but not other acceptable methods (basic patch), etc, etc.

As we all know who can do what to a main is still up for heated debate. I've been told guidance is coming from the FAA (third hand, not by the FAA). I still believe that 65.111 by itself says that the next person to jump a main can do anything to it. I DO NOT believe this is in general the FAA's intent or interpretation.

Should there be a distinction between replacing one line and a total reline? Maybe.

The saga continues.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

As we all know who can do what to a main is still up for heated debate. I've been told guidance is coming from the FAA (third hand, not by the FAA).

We have all been told that on this very forum. But third hand doesn't now or in future mean shit. All my sources at the FAA, admittedly they are few, feel that since there is no requirement for records to me maintained on anything done to a main and with the present wording they feel anything can be done by just about anyone who is the next person jumping the damn thing. This is for 2 DPRE’S in my area, 4 employees at 2 different FSDO’s and a close friend at OK City. They could just give a shit less and wish people in the field would leave it alone.

Quote

Should there be a distinction between replacing one line and a total reline? Maybe

On a reserve, without a doubt yes. On a main it should be up to the rigger or next jumper jumping the canopy to make that decision.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[leapdog 0]

This is an email I got from Dave Dewolfe

Damien,
I was sent a copy from someone in the FAA.. and I did not have a lot of time to go over it but picked out some things that needed comments on. I am sure that when I got through it carefully I will find a lot more. I will attach what I sent to Johnny Malone. I sent it to him since at that time the book was not officially out. BUT in the front of the book is an official E mail address for people to send comments.

Blue Skies Dave


I put the word doc. attachment as his comments so far to the FAA about the book

Gunnery Sergeant of Marines
"I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

[riggerrob 561]

page 5-34, step 2

Pro-stacking - on the floor - with clamps is an accepted method.
Basic Research (now Apex BASE) originated the method - back in the early 1990s - and even published an instructional video.
I have repacked a couple thousand square reserves using clamps.
We Pro-stacked all the P124A/Aviator prototypes for all the TSO-C23D drop tests.
If you are foolish enough to forget a clamp inside a pack job, then you missed the last step in the Aviator manual which says: "COUNT YOUR TOOLS."

However, I understand that clamps are a "religious rigging" issue, like molar straps.

[riggerrob 561]

Page 6-8 Navy End Tab

Navy End Tabs, sail maker's palms, etc. are for girls and sissies.
REAL riggers use 9 nine inch long upholstery needles.

Caveat: I hope that some readers understand my dry sense of humor.

[leapdog 0]

Quote

page 5-34, step 2

Pro-stacking - on the floor - with clamps is an accepted method.
Basic Research (now Apex BASE) originated the method - back in the early 1990s - and even published an instructional video.
I have repacked a couple thousand square reserves using clamps.
We Pro-stacked all the P124A/Aviator prototypes for all the TSO-C23D drop tests.
If you are foolish enough to forget a clamp inside a pack job, then you missed the last step in the Aviator manual which says: "COUNT YOUR TOOLS."

However, I understand that clamps are a "religious rigging" issue, like molar straps.

That was "the King" Dave Dewolfe that wrote the attachment. If you have ever met him, he says right away, I don't do base, I don't do CRW and I stay out of the mosh pit.

I'm not going to debate anything he writes.

Gunnery Sergeant of Marines
"I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

[darnknit 0]

Quote

there is no requirement for records to me maintained on anything done to a main and with the present wording they feel anything can be done by just about anyone who is the next person jumping the damn thing.

interestingly enough, on page 1-6, which is coincidentally page sixteen, it states that a master rigger must have administrator or manufacurer approval to alter a parachute. i could see the FAA interpreting this as meaning ONLY a master rigger could alter a parachute, and even then ONLY with approval. wether the parachute was certificated or not.


oddly enough, if you look at section 7.5.2(page 253) which discusses alterations, a senior rigger can shorten leg pads. i am not sure why shortening leg pads is in the section on alterations, and i'm even more confused as to why a senior rigger is allowed to sew on a harness in this instance, but not others.

so apparently, even though i am not allowed to do alterations, i am allowed to do alterations.

pulling is cool. keep it in the skin

[riggermick 6]

oddly enough, if you look at section 7.5.2(page 253) which discusses alterations, a senior rigger can shorten leg pads. i am not sure why shortening leg pads is in the section on alterations, and i'm even more confused as to why a senior rigger is allowed to sew on a harness in this instance, but not others.

so apparently, even though i am not allowed to do alterations, i am allowed to do alterations.

[darnknit 0]

my point is that shortening leg pads is in the section on alterations. it also states that a senior rigger can shorten leg pads. it would look like although one page of the manual is clear about alterations(16) another page(253) gives me, a senior rigger, the green light to alter harness/containers. the same manual also considers shortening a MLW an alteration. i would think it wasn't that much different than replacing a MLW which would be a major repair, but not an alteration.

blue stuff,
p.j.

pulling is cool. keep it in the skin

[councilman24 36]

Quote

Caveat: I hope that some readers understand my dry sense of humor.

Rob, NOBODY understands your dry sense of humor!

BTW I propacked reserves on the ground for years. But didn't use clamps. First described that I know of in an early 1980's Northern Lite manual.

But I've changed to more conventional propack of reserves, namely do it standind and dress it on the floor all over again.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE