hawkflight 0 #1 December 21, 2005 Can anyone tell me about Flexon containers...how good are they do they hold up well...there is a used one for sale on ebay and I'm thinking of bidding on it.....Thanks in advance ~Tattoo Tom............................... "Any fool can learn for his own mistakes, a wise man learns from anothers." Mark Twain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrBrant 0 #2 December 21, 2005 a guy at my DZ had one this year. It looked to be a very nice rig. (little older, but still nice, and in good shape). - not that I'm any expert in gear anyway, He did have to get hard-housings installed, so just make sure that's done Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #3 December 21, 2005 PM riggerrob, I think he used to work for them. The one I've seen was pretty similar to a talon, but had some funky riser covers. Edit: I got bored and looked it up on ebay. Based on the pictures it looks like it's in great shape Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybeergodd 0 #4 December 21, 2005 They are good containers....just about totally identical to the Talon...They are made my Rigging Innovations and are basically an older version of the Talon 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NickD 1 #5 December 21, 2005 It's kind of an old rig now, but if airworthy it's okay. If you get one made from Antron material they're cool, because if you spill beer on the rig it just beads up. Also if the Antron looks a little fuzzed up you can take an electric razor to it and it cleans right up. (You may want your rigger do this as it takes a light touch.) BTW, also go to the Rigging Innovations website and check to see if there are any outstanding service bulletins on the Flexon . . . NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ZigZagMarquis 8 #6 December 21, 2005 I'd call R.I... see if you can speak to Sandy... I'd query him about the Felxon you have in mind, I'd be a bit leary of the "soft housings", especially around the yoke... I have a 94Talon which came with soft housings for the cut-away cables... I had R.I. do what they then called a "hybrid mod" where the soft housing around the yoke was replaced with a hard housing, but kept the soft housings for the "ends" for the cut-away cables... I've got one chop & reserve ride on my 94Talon in that config and it worked fine... Cheers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites justinb138 0 #7 December 21, 2005 The one mentioned on ebay had hard housings, but I think there was a service bulletin that had something to do w/ the ripcord housing being tacked. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 558 #8 December 21, 2005 There were several Service Bulletins issued for Flexons. Not all of them were published and some were kept in in-house because no-one outside the factory knew how to do them. For example, if you got one of the few Flexons made from a bad batch of Antron fabric, you had to return it to the factory for repairs or replacement. Similarly, the "tuck tab tune up" was only done at the factory. Only a handful of people outside the factory got good at relocating Cypres control heads from the right shoulder pad to the back pad. Some of those also had to have the Cypres battery box relocated from the pack tray to the mid-wall. There was also an update to the main bridle tuck pocket. As for the soft housings .. soft housings worked great as long as the cables were installed correctly. The problem was that neither R.I. nor Sun Path published decent diagrams of how to install cables correctly and the average skydiver was not bright enough to figure it out on his own. Don't worry too much about the updates mentioned above, as I updated most Flexons when they visited R.I. during the mid-1990s. Back then , all those updates were free. The bottom line is, if I had that Flexon in hand, I could tell you about any outstanding service bulletins. Without the rig in hand it is difficult to say. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #9 December 21, 2005 QuoteThe one mentioned on ebay had hard housings, but I think there was a service bulletin that had something to do w/ the ripcord housing being tacked. Attached are the SB I have listed for the Flexon. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ZigZagMarquis 8 #10 December 21, 2005 Quote... The problem was that neither R.I. nor Sun Path published decent diagrams of how to install cables correctly and the average skydiver was not bright enough to figure it out on his own... Hey! Hoser!! Actually... not too long ago I encountered an older Javelin with soft housings... had to call up Sunpath to get a refresh on the proper routing around the yoke... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites alan 1 #11 December 22, 2005 Quoteneither R.I. nor Sun Path published decent diagrams of how to install cables correctly and the average skydiver was not bright enough to figure it out on his own. Rather condescending attitude displayed here. Must be referring to Sparky, he thinks the chest strap isn't load bearing during deployment. Hee! Hee! My ass.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #12 December 22, 2005 QuoteQuoteneither R.I. nor Sun Path published decent diagrams of how to install cables correctly and the average skydiver was not bright enough to figure it out on his own. Rather condescending attitude displayed here. Must be referring to Sparky, he thinks the chest strap isn't load bearing during deployment. Hee! Hee! My ass. Yes he does, your ass. Have you got something to say to me?My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites alan 1 #13 December 22, 2005 QuoteHave you got something to say to me? Already saying it in the Harness question thread. Robs the one saying the average skydiver isn't bright enough to route cutaway cables in a soft housing. I know I can, so if you can, then that would put us in either the above or below average groups.....pick the group you want, I'll take the other. Just don't get pissed at me because Rob thinks he's brighter than the average skydiver.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ZigZagMarquis 8 #14 December 22, 2005 QuoteRobs the one saying the average skydiver isn't bright enough to route cutaway cables in a soft housing. I know I can, so if you can, then that would put us in either the above or below average groups.....pick the group you want, I'll take the other. Just don't get pissed at me because Rob thinks he's brighter than the average skydiver. I've seen cut-away cables incorrectly routed on Javelin's with soft housings and back before I had the hard housing mod done on my 94Talon (e.g. when it still had soft housings), I picked my rig up from a repack and found the cut-away cables had been mis-routed by the rigger that had repacked my reserve... a) motivation for me to get the hard cable housing mod done on my Talon... b) motivation not to use that rigger anymore... c) motivation to get my rigger's ticket myself... ... so... Actually, Rob isn't all that wrong, although he may have said it differently... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites alan 1 #15 December 22, 2005 I didn't say Rob was wrong, I said he displayed a rather condescending attitude. I wonder how he would have done routing those cables without the benefit of the instructions or someone at RI to show him how.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ZigZagMarquis 8 #16 December 22, 2005 QuoteI didn't say Rob was wrong, I said he displayed a rather condescending attitude. I wonder how he would have done routing those cables without the benefit of the instructions or someone at RI to show him how. Okay, so I should have said Rob has a point, but could have said it better... geeze... next we'll be arguing over what "is" "is"... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites alan 1 #17 December 22, 2005 QuoteOkay, so I should have said Rob has a point, but could have said it better... Should have said it better Should have. Could have implies a certain capacity.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ZigZagMarquis 8 #18 December 22, 2005 QuoteQuoteOkay, so I should have said Rob has a point, but could have said it better... Should have said it better Should have. Could have implies a certain capacity. Hey! This ain't English class.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 558 #19 December 22, 2005 Folks, apologize if my condescending tone sparked a feud amongst you all. I was really trying to make a dig at R.I. and Sun Path for not illustrating their manuals in a manner that a junior jumper could understand. As for the debate about who is "average" ... reminds me of a riddle: Did you hear about the Irish wedding? A brawl broke out while their were trying to figure out who was the best man! Hah! Hah! As for the debate about who here is "above average" .. if you hold a rigger's rating or have read a manual, you are "above average" by skydiving standards. Again, I apologize if my dry sense of humor offends anyone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #20 December 22, 2005 QuoteI didn't say Rob was wrong, I said he displayed a rather condescending attitude. I wonder how he would have done routing those cables without the benefit of the instructions or someone at RI to show him how. He probably would have done just fine. I believe he was working for RI when they came out with soft housings. How many rigs have you actually build yourself? Rob has built quite a few. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites alan 1 #21 December 23, 2005 QuoteI believe he was working for RI when they came out with soft housings. Hence my comment: "or someone at RI to show him how." QuoteHow many rigs have you actually build yourself? None, but that wasn't the issue. QuoteRob has built quite a few. I don't think that gives him the right to insult most skydivers by saying they aren't bright enough to figure out how to route the cables in a soft housing. I believe" the average skydiver" was how he put it. Say, I'll bet your an average skydiver....what ever that means.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites alan 1 #22 December 23, 2005 QuoteHey! This ain't English class.... Ahhhh, a sense of humor. I like it.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites alan 1 #23 December 23, 2005 QuoteFolks, apologize if my condescending tone sparked a feud amongst you all. I was really trying to make a dig at R.I. and Sun Path for not illustrating their manuals in a manner that a junior jumper could understand. ....... Thanks Rob, this comes across much better. In all likelyhood I'm probably the only one that took offense at your dry humor. I'll apologize for being overly sensitive and harsh and using Sparky as my foil.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 558 #24 December 23, 2005 To refine mjosparky's retort, R.I. began building soft housings circa 1990, but I did not start working there until 1994. I struggled with soft housings on Javelins, Flexons and Teardrops - often staring at the manuals and scratching my head - until a couple of more experienced rigger showed me their favorite tricks. While working at R.I. I retrofitted hard housings to dozens of Felxons, '94 Talons and a few Javelins. In the end, I blame R.I. and Sun Path for most of the problems with soft housings because they failed to publish decent assembly drawing until several years after they introduced new technology. The issue was further complicated by simultaneous introduction of: Cypres, free style, sit flying, group freeflying, tuck tabs, Velcro-less toggles, BOCs, Antron fabric, ringed harnesses, ZP fabric, micro-lines, Tube Stows and wing-loadings exceeding 1:1 for the first time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
skybeergodd 0 #4 December 21, 2005 They are good containers....just about totally identical to the Talon...They are made my Rigging Innovations and are basically an older version of the Talon 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickD 1 #5 December 21, 2005 It's kind of an old rig now, but if airworthy it's okay. If you get one made from Antron material they're cool, because if you spill beer on the rig it just beads up. Also if the Antron looks a little fuzzed up you can take an electric razor to it and it cleans right up. (You may want your rigger do this as it takes a light touch.) BTW, also go to the Rigging Innovations website and check to see if there are any outstanding service bulletins on the Flexon . . . NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #6 December 21, 2005 I'd call R.I... see if you can speak to Sandy... I'd query him about the Felxon you have in mind, I'd be a bit leary of the "soft housings", especially around the yoke... I have a 94Talon which came with soft housings for the cut-away cables... I had R.I. do what they then called a "hybrid mod" where the soft housing around the yoke was replaced with a hard housing, but kept the soft housings for the "ends" for the cut-away cables... I've got one chop & reserve ride on my 94Talon in that config and it worked fine... Cheers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #7 December 21, 2005 The one mentioned on ebay had hard housings, but I think there was a service bulletin that had something to do w/ the ripcord housing being tacked. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #8 December 21, 2005 There were several Service Bulletins issued for Flexons. Not all of them were published and some were kept in in-house because no-one outside the factory knew how to do them. For example, if you got one of the few Flexons made from a bad batch of Antron fabric, you had to return it to the factory for repairs or replacement. Similarly, the "tuck tab tune up" was only done at the factory. Only a handful of people outside the factory got good at relocating Cypres control heads from the right shoulder pad to the back pad. Some of those also had to have the Cypres battery box relocated from the pack tray to the mid-wall. There was also an update to the main bridle tuck pocket. As for the soft housings .. soft housings worked great as long as the cables were installed correctly. The problem was that neither R.I. nor Sun Path published decent diagrams of how to install cables correctly and the average skydiver was not bright enough to figure it out on his own. Don't worry too much about the updates mentioned above, as I updated most Flexons when they visited R.I. during the mid-1990s. Back then , all those updates were free. The bottom line is, if I had that Flexon in hand, I could tell you about any outstanding service bulletins. Without the rig in hand it is difficult to say. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #9 December 21, 2005 QuoteThe one mentioned on ebay had hard housings, but I think there was a service bulletin that had something to do w/ the ripcord housing being tacked. Attached are the SB I have listed for the Flexon. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #10 December 21, 2005 Quote... The problem was that neither R.I. nor Sun Path published decent diagrams of how to install cables correctly and the average skydiver was not bright enough to figure it out on his own... Hey! Hoser!! Actually... not too long ago I encountered an older Javelin with soft housings... had to call up Sunpath to get a refresh on the proper routing around the yoke... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alan 1 #11 December 22, 2005 Quoteneither R.I. nor Sun Path published decent diagrams of how to install cables correctly and the average skydiver was not bright enough to figure it out on his own. Rather condescending attitude displayed here. Must be referring to Sparky, he thinks the chest strap isn't load bearing during deployment. Hee! Hee! My ass.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #12 December 22, 2005 QuoteQuoteneither R.I. nor Sun Path published decent diagrams of how to install cables correctly and the average skydiver was not bright enough to figure it out on his own. Rather condescending attitude displayed here. Must be referring to Sparky, he thinks the chest strap isn't load bearing during deployment. Hee! Hee! My ass. Yes he does, your ass. Have you got something to say to me?My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alan 1 #13 December 22, 2005 QuoteHave you got something to say to me? Already saying it in the Harness question thread. Robs the one saying the average skydiver isn't bright enough to route cutaway cables in a soft housing. I know I can, so if you can, then that would put us in either the above or below average groups.....pick the group you want, I'll take the other. Just don't get pissed at me because Rob thinks he's brighter than the average skydiver.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #14 December 22, 2005 QuoteRobs the one saying the average skydiver isn't bright enough to route cutaway cables in a soft housing. I know I can, so if you can, then that would put us in either the above or below average groups.....pick the group you want, I'll take the other. Just don't get pissed at me because Rob thinks he's brighter than the average skydiver. I've seen cut-away cables incorrectly routed on Javelin's with soft housings and back before I had the hard housing mod done on my 94Talon (e.g. when it still had soft housings), I picked my rig up from a repack and found the cut-away cables had been mis-routed by the rigger that had repacked my reserve... a) motivation for me to get the hard cable housing mod done on my Talon... b) motivation not to use that rigger anymore... c) motivation to get my rigger's ticket myself... ... so... Actually, Rob isn't all that wrong, although he may have said it differently... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alan 1 #15 December 22, 2005 I didn't say Rob was wrong, I said he displayed a rather condescending attitude. I wonder how he would have done routing those cables without the benefit of the instructions or someone at RI to show him how.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #16 December 22, 2005 QuoteI didn't say Rob was wrong, I said he displayed a rather condescending attitude. I wonder how he would have done routing those cables without the benefit of the instructions or someone at RI to show him how. Okay, so I should have said Rob has a point, but could have said it better... geeze... next we'll be arguing over what "is" "is"... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alan 1 #17 December 22, 2005 QuoteOkay, so I should have said Rob has a point, but could have said it better... Should have said it better Should have. Could have implies a certain capacity.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #18 December 22, 2005 QuoteQuoteOkay, so I should have said Rob has a point, but could have said it better... Should have said it better Should have. Could have implies a certain capacity. Hey! This ain't English class.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #19 December 22, 2005 Folks, apologize if my condescending tone sparked a feud amongst you all. I was really trying to make a dig at R.I. and Sun Path for not illustrating their manuals in a manner that a junior jumper could understand. As for the debate about who is "average" ... reminds me of a riddle: Did you hear about the Irish wedding? A brawl broke out while their were trying to figure out who was the best man! Hah! Hah! As for the debate about who here is "above average" .. if you hold a rigger's rating or have read a manual, you are "above average" by skydiving standards. Again, I apologize if my dry sense of humor offends anyone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #20 December 22, 2005 QuoteI didn't say Rob was wrong, I said he displayed a rather condescending attitude. I wonder how he would have done routing those cables without the benefit of the instructions or someone at RI to show him how. He probably would have done just fine. I believe he was working for RI when they came out with soft housings. How many rigs have you actually build yourself? Rob has built quite a few. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alan 1 #21 December 23, 2005 QuoteI believe he was working for RI when they came out with soft housings. Hence my comment: "or someone at RI to show him how." QuoteHow many rigs have you actually build yourself? None, but that wasn't the issue. QuoteRob has built quite a few. I don't think that gives him the right to insult most skydivers by saying they aren't bright enough to figure out how to route the cables in a soft housing. I believe" the average skydiver" was how he put it. Say, I'll bet your an average skydiver....what ever that means.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alan 1 #22 December 23, 2005 QuoteHey! This ain't English class.... Ahhhh, a sense of humor. I like it.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alan 1 #23 December 23, 2005 QuoteFolks, apologize if my condescending tone sparked a feud amongst you all. I was really trying to make a dig at R.I. and Sun Path for not illustrating their manuals in a manner that a junior jumper could understand. ....... Thanks Rob, this comes across much better. In all likelyhood I'm probably the only one that took offense at your dry humor. I'll apologize for being overly sensitive and harsh and using Sparky as my foil.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #24 December 23, 2005 To refine mjosparky's retort, R.I. began building soft housings circa 1990, but I did not start working there until 1994. I struggled with soft housings on Javelins, Flexons and Teardrops - often staring at the manuals and scratching my head - until a couple of more experienced rigger showed me their favorite tricks. While working at R.I. I retrofitted hard housings to dozens of Felxons, '94 Talons and a few Javelins. In the end, I blame R.I. and Sun Path for most of the problems with soft housings because they failed to publish decent assembly drawing until several years after they introduced new technology. The issue was further complicated by simultaneous introduction of: Cypres, free style, sit flying, group freeflying, tuck tabs, Velcro-less toggles, BOCs, Antron fabric, ringed harnesses, ZP fabric, micro-lines, Tube Stows and wing-loadings exceeding 1:1 for the first time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
