jonesing for clouds

[emmiwy 0]

I wanted to address the topic of dealing with jumpers who are not so reserved or pre-occupied with safety regulations. To the average skydiver, I'm probably very conservative in terms of progression and attempting, learning new skills in the air.

A friend of mine, on the other hand, who is 3 jumps shy of getting his A license is quite the opposite. I don't want to rat him out but let's just say there are certain practices of his that I would not approve of if I were a coach or instructor. At best I have told him to exercise caution, without sounding like a coach telling him what to do. But he seems not to recognize the seriousness of consequences if something were to happen not only to him, but to others responsible/liable for his safety as a student jumper. Over the weekend he was excited to jump through clouds, oblivious to the fact that the FAA had come to the DZ to do a routine check; we were shut down b/c they would not send planes up into the clouds. As far as I know I haven't heard anything as far as him being an unsafe skydiver from instructors, but he's just one of those skydivers I would not want to jump with and fear what he would do once he is licensed.

How would you deal with a skydiver like this? or am I being overly cautious?

[regulator 0]

Can you give a few details about what makes you think he is unsafe in the air? Is it just his attitude, or is he doing something else that gives him the title of being 'unsafe'?

[emmiwy 0]

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Can you give a few details about what makes you think he is unsafe in the air? Is it just his attitude, or is he doing something else that gives him the title of being 'unsafe'?

Well he jumped with a camera [a mini-cam you can mount on an RC plane]. It's obviously not the HQ-type camera that videographers use which require head mounts and what not, so probably isn't that difficult to use. Nevertheless it takes some focus away from what he's supposed to be doing. Just the fact that he's jumped with a camera with under 25 jumps is a little scary. When I got licensed, he wanted to jump with me while he was/is still doing his solo jumps. I applaud him for knowing how to have a good time and how to enjoy this sport, but he doesn't fully demonstrate understanding of what risks are also involved.

[buff 0]

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Can you give a few details about what makes you think he is unsafe in the air? Is it just his attitude, or is he doing something else that gives him the title of being 'unsafe'?

I would assume it would all be attitude as the OP is not a coach and would not be able to jump with the person in question as said jumper is still a Student.

To the OP, have you voiced your concerns with an I or ST&A at your DZ?

It's called the Hillbilly Hop N Pop dude.
If you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough.
That's fucked up. Watermelons do not grow on trees! ~Skymama

[dudeman17 281]

This Saturday, grab the dude, get that instructor with the gray hair and let's just have a little chat...

[emmiwy 0]

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I would assume it would all be attitude as the OP is not a coach and would not be able to jump with the person in question as said jumper is still a Student.

To the OP, have you voiced your concerns with an I or ST&A at your DZ?

Not yet, but that's probably a good idea. I should gather more information from the instructors who have jumped with him. He doesn't jump that frequently, and there are times he's at the DZ when I'm not so I can't make a comprehensive judgment call, apart from as you said, his [cavalier] attitude.

[hookitt 0]

Unless he's being a tool and being an obvious danger to himself and others, you've got nothing to do about it. You can ask the people who jump with him but honestly someone appearing to have a cavalier attitude may very well be a conscientious person.

Many new jumpers are full of themselves. Skydiving is simple. Becoming highly skilled at it takes time and training. Don't sweat it to hard. As long as he's not acting like an idiot, it's ok to sound like one.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[riggerpaul 1]

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Can you give a few details about what makes you think he is unsafe in the air? Is it just his attitude, or is he doing something else that gives him the title of being 'unsafe'?

Well he jumped with a camera [a mini-cam you can mount on an RC plane]. It's obviously not the HQ-type camera that videographers use which require head mounts and what not, so probably isn't that difficult to use. Nevertheless it takes some focus away from what he's supposed to be doing. Just the fact that he's jumped with a camera with under 25 jumps is a little scary. When I got licensed, he wanted to jump with me while he was/is still doing his solo jumps. I applaud him for knowing how to have a good time and how to enjoy this sport, but he doesn't fully demonstrate understanding of what risks are also involved.

I'd like to hear a bit more about the camera.

Where was it? You sort of said it was not mounted anywhere. Was he holding it in his hand?

Did someone with authority say this was okay, or did he sort of sneak it onto the jump?

If he got someone to approve, there's nothing to be done.

If he was sneaky about it, then I think it is more than just "attitude", since he was doing something that he more or less knew he should not be doing. Otherwise why be sneaky?

If he did it openly and nobody caught it, I am not sure what to say. Someone should be watching him a bit more closely.

As you say, he is still a student, and his actions could easily get his instructors and others who are responsible for him into some trouble if he gets himself hurt.

Without making a big production of it, you can still ask the S&TA if he is aware that your friend jumped with a camera.

Then leave the rest to the staff.

But I do feel that they (the staff) deserve to know if your friend is doing things he shouldn't be doing.

[emmiwy 0]

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I'd like to hear a bit more about the camera.

Where was it? You sort of said it was not mounted anywhere. Was he holding it in his hand?

It was a really small camera, he ended up mounting it on his wrist, on the velcro fastener for his altimeter. I haven't brought it up the last time I was there when he was jumping at the DZ, not wanting to make a really big deal out of it. And he hasn't brought it up since he first jumped it so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming he stopped jumping with it.

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Did someone with authority say this was okay, or did he sort of sneak it onto the jump?

If he was sneaky about it, then I think it is more than just "attitude", since he was doing something that he more or less knew he should not be doing. Otherwise why be sneaky?

He definitely kept it under the radar, by using a small camera so it wouldn't be noticed. And my guess if he hasn't jumped with it since he knew it wasn't the right thing to do.

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As you say, he is still a student, and his actions could easily get his instructors and others who are responsible for him into some trouble if he gets himself hurt.

This is one of my biggest concerns. Fortunately he doesn't jump that often, but not much of a reason not to still be careful. It just takes one jump to screw up to regret it. But I'll ask him about it, keep an eye on him, and definitely tell an instructor about it. As one of the previous replies said, he may be just ignorant of the rules because of his inexperience, not necessarily because he chooses to be...

Thanks for the replies everyone. :)

[feuergnom 22]

not to be an asshole but that's what i really love about these forums: people are concerned about stuff happening on their DZ - but instead of approaching the guys in charge at home (DZO's, S & TA's, staff, instructors whoever) and talk the talk with them they come over here and ask what action should be taken.....

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[ILikePizza 0]

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This Saturday, grab the dude, get that instructor with the gray hair and let's just have a little chat...

I'm brand new, but this guy is spot on. Even if you don't grab the guy, definately 'grab the dude' (the actual jumper) with the grey hair (really any experienced jumper). Even if they don't seem approachable, I've bugged the hell out of a couple of the older, slower moving guys around my DZ and they love the questions and are more than willing to help.

...And I'm not gonna not get Randy Jackson's autograph...
Did we just become best friends?

D.S. #1000000

[DSE 3]

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I'm brand new, but this guy is spot on. Even if you don't grab the guy, definately 'grab the dude' (the actual jumper) with the grey hair (really any experienced jumper). Even if they don't seem approachable, I've bugged the hell out of a couple of the older, slower moving guys around my DZ and they love the questions and are more than willing to help.

The guy with the grey hair is definitely older, slower. But he's pretty approachable.

[riggerrob 561]

Let's see: he does not jump very often, takes up a camera way too early, wants to jump through clouds, scares you ...
Try telling manifest that he scares you so badly that you do not want to be on the same airplane with hi,.
As soon as your fears start interfering with revenue, the DZO will start listening.

[emmiwy 0]

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Let's see: he does not jump very often, takes up a camera way too early, wants to jump through clouds, scares you ...
Try telling manifest that he scares you so badly that you do not want to be on the same airplane with hi,.
As soon as your fears start interfering with revenue, the DZO will start listening.

Thanks all, I have talked to the manager of the school at the DZ about him. He'll be on the look out. Just something to keep in mind for newer jumpers and are reading this thread: jumping clouds may be "fun" but if you can't spot for the life of you, its your choice whether you want to jump. Just because the green light says go, doesn't mean you have to go. Risks involved with jumping clouds include but are not limited to: canopy collision, canopy collapse, turbulence under canopy, fogging up your helmet visor and reducing visibility. Just FYI.

[DocPop 1]

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Risks involved with jumping clouds include..... canopy collapse, turbulence under canopy.....

Huh?

How are clouds going to collapse your canopy?

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[dudeman17 281]

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The guy with the grey hair is definitely older, slower. But he's pretty approachable.

[riggerrob 561]

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Risks involved with jumping clouds include..... canopy collapse, turbulence under canopy.....

Huh?

How are clouds going to collapse your canopy?[/reply

........................................................................

Cumulo nimbus clouds can collapse your canopy or rip wings off of fighter jets.

But in British Columbia, we worry more about cumulo granitus clouds.

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[piisfish 135]

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Risks involved with jumping clouds include but are not limited to: canopy collision, canopy collapse, turbulence under canopy, fogging up your helmet visor and reducing visibility. Just FYI.

getting lost, suffocating, drowning

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[egloskerry 0]

And you come out of it with that sticky cloud residue all over you!

[feuergnom 22]

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Risks involved with jumping clouds include but are not limited to: canopy collision, canopy collapse, turbulence under canopy, fogging up your helmet visor and reducing visibility. Just FYI.

getting lost, suffocating, drowning

with the amount of rain we currently have in europe drowning seems quite a possibility

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[piisfish 135]

come to Switzerland, it's ALMOST europe, plus we have the sunshine

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[emmiwy 0]

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Risks involved with jumping clouds include..... canopy collapse, turbulence under canopy.....

Huh?

How are clouds going to collapse your canopy?

Well I heard a story of it happening, not from personal experience. Maybe he exaggerated but he said it was result of encountering some turbulence.

[emmiwy 0]

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Risks involved with jumping clouds include but are not limited to: canopy collision, canopy collapse, turbulence under canopy, fogging up your helmet visor and reducing visibility. Just FYI.

getting lost, suffocating, drowning

Everyone out there is out to kill you, even the clouds. :)

[feuergnom 22]

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come to Switzerland, it's ALMOST europe, plus we have the sunshine

fukker read: I don't see myself jumping this weekend with a forecast like that

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[theonlyski 3]

Fuck it, convince him to jump during some rain... if he can get up, get out and feel that, I doubt he will want to do it again!

Yes, you can jump thru a cloud and get in all kinds of trouble potentially, or, you can do a low jump with a long delay just under the cloud, not knowing its raining till you're outside the plane (I would like to thank a certian pilot for giving me the green light in a nice rain)

Thats a feeling thats hard to explain!

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message