Safire 1 for novice?

[jamester28 0]

Firstly I am aware of the 8% size difference between the Safire 1 and comparable canopies. My weight is 140-145 with an exit weight of ~170. The canopy in question is a 189 (per the Icarus placard). Would any of you S&TAs out there let a low-timer jump a Safire 1 with this wing loading? And by low-timer I mean less than 50 jumps. What kind of differences can I expect from jumping a square student canopy loaded at 0.8 and then downsizing to a "lightly elliptical" canopy loaded at just under 1:1? Is it a bad idea to change planforms AND downsize? And is "lightly elliptical" really elliptical? Honestly I just want off of rental/student gear. At my dz the rental gear is awkward (one size fits most) and the padding is worn down and they are expensive to rent. So to summarize... Newbie A license holder wants to downsize from a square loaded 0.8 to a lightly elliptical loaded at 1:1. Yay or nay? And if you're gonna be rude and abrasive please just leave it in your therapy sessions. I see a lot of threads where newbies get talked down to for asking questions and I feel that attitude is a misrepresentation of the skydiving community I have come to love and appreciate... just sayin.

[dragon2 0]

Should be a good canopy choice. A safire is a good choice after student gear. Size sounds right too.

Semi-elliptical basically means the canopy is suitable for intermediate jumpers, some for novices. Elliptical means a canopy is suitable for more experienced jumpers (say 400+ jumps).

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[pastramionrye7 0]

Your instructors will be the best judge of your own abilities, but--in my opinion--a lightly loaded Safire isn't a bad choice for someone coming off student status who can land a similarly loaded student canopy in a variety of situations without any drama.

I got a Safire when I had about 30 jumps and was loading it at about 0.9:1. Four hundred jumps later I still like it. One day I'll downsize...maybe. It's a good canopy. Treat it nicely, and it will do the same for you.

[azureriders 0]

At your experience, canopy choice, and wing loading, you are in that area that none of use are really going to be able to say for sure over the internet. Talk to your instructors. This canopy is not going to be so safe we call all say go for it, it is also not nearly so dangerous that we can all say no way. Only the ones who know you, are going to be able to give you the best answer.

My internet opinion, based on the fact that you asked a knowledgable and well thought out question, and that I like safires, you should be fine.

I jump a Safir 1 189. It is comparable to 170's of other names. Although I load mine MUCH heavier and would be hard to say how yours will handle, I have loaned mine to several of my students who were thinking of buying something similiar. If I knew you, and you were not stupid, I would let you jump mine.

Hope that helps.

[jamester28 0]

Thanks for all your replies... I've been reading a lot of gear reviews and forums. I also spend a lot of time on YouTube. Obviously that doesn't equate to real world experience but I have seen a lot of things to be wary of. The two more notable are situational awareness and downsizing too quickly/over confidence in my own abilities. There's a lot of people smacking the ground during high performance landings! The situational awareness is something that got pounded into my head by the military though. Lol. Again, thanks for your info. Its nice to hear from people who fly the canopy!

Blue Skies

[jaffo 0]

I'm not an instructor. (disclaimer)

The Safire 1 loaded simularly was an early canopy of mine. If you are of average skill level or better, I think it is an appropriate choice.

OF COURSE, you should ask an instructor that knows you.

Couple of things.
1. Roll the nose!!! The Safire 1 much like the Sabre 1 could sometimes SMACK ya.
2. You are at the perfect level to take a canopy course.

I have many more jumps than you and just signed up for one. I wish I had taken one earlier. And with the rash of recent deaths under fully functioning canopies, I finally got off my ass and signed up.

Good luck and enjoy!!
Ryder

Take chances, just do it with all the information to make good decisions!!

Muff Brother# 2706 Dudeist Skydiver# 121.5

[dragon2 0]

Quote

1. Roll the nose!!! The Safire 1 much like the Sabre 1 could sometimes SMACK ya.

On allof the safire 1s (and 2s) I've jumped, you should not roll the nose because it then takes 1000+ ft to open. YMMV, but I wouldn't start out rolling anything. Safire's are not known to slam people, rather they are known for soft openings. And even if yours does, rolling the nose only gives off-heading openings IMO, again, YMMV, but I wouldn't take this as standard advice.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[jaffo 0]

Quote

Quote

1. Roll the nose!!! The Safire 1 much like the Sabre 1 could sometimes SMACK ya.

On allof the safire 1s (and 2s) I've jumped, you should not roll the nose because it then takes 1000+ ft to open. YMMV, but I wouldn't start out rolling anything. Safire's are not known to slam people, rather they are known for soft openings. And even if yours does, rolling the nose only gives off-heading openings IMO, again, YMMV, but I wouldn't take this as standard advice.

It was enough of an issue that there is a $400 canopy mod for the Safire 1's to make the openings better.

Jump it and decide for yourself. Routinely rolling the nose of the safires does not cause any of the complications you mentioned except for a little longer snivel. I've never hit a 1000' though.

Take chances, just do it with all the information to make good decisions!!

Muff Brother# 2706 Dudeist Skydiver# 121.5

[mx19 0]

Ove only felt the openings on my Safire 169 to be brisker than normal after I jumped a Safire 2 I now jump it every day with full camera set up, using packers and don't find the openings to be hard at all! Obviously this is my experiance and all canopies are different. (the packers and I don't do anything to the nose apart from sometimes pushing it slightly in but leaving centre cell out a little.

[crotalus01 0]

I got a Safire 189 after my Sabre broke 9 lines on deployment. I rolled the nose for the first 8 or so jumps on it (packing the same as my Sabre), and it had the worst off heading spinning openings - to the point I thought something was wrong with the canopy.
Finally someone suggested I not roll the nose, and every jump since then it has not been an issue, nice on heading openings.
One thing I have noticed about the Safire (mine at any rate) is that tends to open really hard when subterminal.

As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD...

[pastramionrye7 0]

I'll add to the discussion on Safire openings since I have a little bit of experience with them. I have about 350 jumps on a Safire 195 (custom size, and don't ask me why the original owner chose this size), about 20 on a Safire 2 169, and a few on Spectres, Sabre 2s, and Navigators of comparable size. I find the Safire opens more briskly than most of the other canopies I've jumped, but I wouldn't lump it into the came category as the Sabre 1, which has a reputation for slamming people. I find the openings on my Safire pretty comfortable, and I appreciate the fact that it doesn't spend much time sniveling. I do a standard pro pack and leave the nose alone.

The Safire 2 definitely has soft, snively openings as far as my experience goes. I will definitely consider it when my Safire is too dogged-out to continue jumping.

[TheCaptain 2]

It is my understanding(from these forums over the years talking about this) that there are basically two types of Safire 1's, some open hard and have less flare power and others that open great and have flare for days. I had one of the later mine was produced in Spain not by PA. I put over 300 jumps on the one I had and no mater how I packed it, I always got great opennings

Kirk
He's dead Jim

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

One thing I have noticed about the Safire (mine at any rate) is that tends to open really hard when subterminal.

Interesting. Do you quarter your slider?

[crotalus01 0]

Yes, I pack it the same for terminal or subterminal openings - maybe that is a mistake. Keep in mind almost all of my subterminal openings have been for CRW or just altitude hop&pops.
The last sub opening I had I took a 2 second delay and it opened like my old Sabre - I had a welt under my arm for over a month from that one...

As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD...

[Andy9o8 0]

Well, maybe even with quartering your slider, the slider doesn't stay up against the stops long enough during the sequence in the sub-terminal relative wind; thus: whammo. I wonder whether a larger slider and/or installing a pocket on it might help?

[crotalus01 0]

No clue. Its not really an issue though - I have learned to take at least a 6 second delay - then it opens just fine.

As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD...

[erdnarob 1]

This is what they were using at Skydive Chicago years ago for students until they changed for Sabre 2 if my memory is good.
Jumping an Icarus 189 should be OK for you (140-145 lbs) if you have reached 15-20 jumps and received a good briefing.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[Brian425 0]

I've been jumping a Safire1, 189 since right off student status. I am about 180-185 out the door with gear.

As with all advice, check with your instructor.

I love the canopy. It opens nicely and has never slammed me. I do not roll the nose. I never found the need to. For me, rolling the nose just made the opening alot slower.

The canopy is responsive and consistent. It has a nice strong flare.

I would recommend it as a novice to intermediate canopy. Buy it and fly it for a lot of years.

Brian

The only time you should look down on someone is when you are offering them your hand.

[billvon 2,400]

Had a Safire1 for a while (129.) Tended to open a little hard, and I didn't like the flare until I had the brake line mod done.

At that loading you should be OK after a few jumps under an "intermediate" size canopy, say a 210. See if you can borrow/demo a, say, Pilot around that size, make a few jumps on it, then give the 189 a try.