callmeJ 0 #1 November 17, 2006 skydive professionals union??? is there such thing?? I mean for all people in the industry. Tandem masters, outside Camera people, packers. Honestly, i cant believe there isn't yet that i can find. I know there is some problems with unions, but frankly speaking we aren't paid what we should be paid as a professional. Does anyone know anything about this matter. Peace CallmeJ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindercles 0 #2 November 17, 2006 Is it possible to unionize independent contractors? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #3 November 17, 2006 Talk about herding cats! Can you imagine trying to organize thousands of working skydivers who run the gambit from hemp-wearing life-long packers to hardcore professional coaches? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #4 November 17, 2006 In new zealand you have two USPA's as such.... one is the New zealand Parachute association and the other is the new zealand parachute industry association. What the NZPIA is all about i have no idea. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #5 November 17, 2006 QuoteIs it possible to unionize independent contractors? Technically, yes. It's done in other industries. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
callmeJ 0 #6 November 17, 2006 it may be impossible but fuck we neeed to!! honestly it might just happen where we are jumping Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #7 November 17, 2006 You've got multiple threads going on this. Pick which one you want to use, otherwise I'm locking this one and you can use the one in the Instructors fourm.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
callmeJ 0 #8 November 17, 2006 i only have 2 going , if you want to get rid of the one in the instructors thats cool. really i just want to know what the pay is like by the drogue throwers out there but thats cool. just to see if we can get something going...maybe high hopes but got to try. just sick of the king like mentalitiy by dropzone owners Peace CallmeJ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daremrc 0 #9 November 17, 2006 ummm i'll qualify this by saying I'm a union worker at my day job, and in general I support unions 150% and also, the dz I jump at does not have a 'dzo is king' mentality at it, so maybe i'm naieve because I've never experienced that at either of the two places i've jumped. but if you unionize some, but not all, of the dz workers you're going to funnel business away from the union joints if the 'customer' does not percieve an added value in going to the union shop over the non union. And, if you think it's hard to draw new people into the sport now, double the cost of AFF. Then double it again. Now you're getting close to the ballpark of what it would cost to pay for healthcare. The way I see it, skydiving is something that people do because they love it. they do not *need* the service, nor do many have much of a choice in where they can get it from. For the most part, if you can make a living in this sport, you are both very lucky and also paid in lots of intangibles, i.e. free jumping. again maybe i'm a naieve newbie here, but cost kept me away from this sport for over a year after my first tandem, even though I knew I most definately wanted to jump again. If it had cost me 2 x or 4x as much, i likely never would've started my student progression. just food for thoughtGood judgement comes from experience, and most of that comes from bad judgement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #10 November 17, 2006 Just what the sport needs,price increases.We are having a hard enough time getting people in the sport and keeping them.I have a better idea why don't you go get a job that is unionized and then skydive for fun on the weekends. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #11 November 17, 2006 QuoteJust what the sport needs,price increases.We are having a hard enough time getting people in the sport and keeping them.I have a better idea why don't you go get a job that is unionized and then skydive for fun on the weekends. what he said .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SBS 0 #12 November 18, 2006 Exactly how much do you want to make? I have always thought that the pay was fair. Good, in fact, for what it is. At this point, it subsidizes my income and it is nice to have a couple hundred dollars a weekend when I'm jumping. If someone chooses to do it full time, it's not a lot, but that's not the fault of the dzo that someone chooses skydiving as their sole source of income. If someone doesn't like a dzo or a dz, or feels that he or she is underpaid, then they can stop jumping for work, or find another dropzone. Nobody is forcing anybody to do anything. I choose not to work at dropzones that pay less than I care to make for a skydive. I don't feel like it's my place to dictate to someone what they have to pay. If they don't pay enough, then they will eventually not have anyone working for them and that is the price that they pay in their business. If that is not the case, and people stay even though they are underpaid, then why should the dzo have to increase wages? He/she chooses a wage, the worker chooses to be there or not. If skydiving in general doesn't pay enough for someone then tough shit, go find another job. Don't have any other skills? Not the dzo's fault, and he/she shouldn't have to write a check for other people's lack of tradable skill. Hey look, I formed a thought. -S_____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jasonRose 0 #13 November 18, 2006 Wow!!! Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jasonRose 0 #14 November 18, 2006 QuoteJust what the sport needs,price increases.We are having a hard enough time getting people in the sport and keeping them.I have a better idea why don't you go get a job that is unionized and then skydive for fun on the weekends. Voice of reason!!! Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #15 November 18, 2006 Damn,there's something I don't hear everyday. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #16 November 18, 2006 What Chris said...even though he has no clue whatsoever what the long bar at the bottom of his keyboard is. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SmilingPhoenix 0 #17 November 18, 2006 Quote Hey look, I formed a thought. -S I would never have believed it was possible! Because life is an adventure - it may not be the one you planned, but then it wouldn't be an adventure! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
callmeJ 0 #18 November 19, 2006 i'm guessing you guys are all from the USA. which i guess its not the right URL to put this on But where i'm from we have the largest tandem operations in the world with over 200 staff that do this for a full time job. In the USA i can see it being a nightmare. Straight up that is what you are basing your reasoning from. I would consider that a lack of actually being in the industery Ie tandem master. there is great cause for unionization over here. to the comment about making it more expensive for AFF and such. I'm strickly concerned with do tandems and a thirll ride for customers not and actual individual that wants to become a skydiver. Cheaper the better for those chaps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #19 November 19, 2006 So I presume you work for John Furnell at Taupo Tandems in New Zealand then. I would suggest you put this thread in the NZPF.org website and not here. You might also realise that you guys are one of the most highly paid dz workers in the world, getting no less than 1000 jumps a year and being able to make skydiving a very well paid career over there. count yourself lucky. In taupo, camera men get paid _____dollars a jump and once they are down get straight back up with a new rig and new memory card and tape while someone in an editing room edits their videos and someone else packs their rigs. We dont have unions like america does in new zealand . I would be interested to hear why you think you need a union when i though the owners of taupo already run the Parachute industry association over there. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
koppel 3 #20 October 13, 2010 There is in Australia. We are covered now by the LHMU (Liquor, Hospitality & Miscellaneous.... wonder which part we come under ) Membership is growing and negotiations are under way. There is a push by some companies in Australia for individuals to become Proprietary Limited companies. While there are some benefits on the whole the cost and benefits do not outweigh the draw backs and the work force are reluctant to become Pty Ltd. There has been some very underhand methods employed by some but not all the companies pushing this manifesto. Divide and Conquer is one of the axioms at the moment. Some companies are happy to sit down with the Union and things are moving forward. there are now full time Skydiving Instructor Professionals so its time for the industry to recognise that it is not just life style any more for many workers I like my canopy... ...it lets me down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #21 October 13, 2010 Aussie jumpers just shot themselves in the foot.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #22 October 13, 2010 QuoteThere is a push by some companies in Australia for individuals to become Proprietary Limited companies. While there are some benefits on the whole the cost and benefits do not outweigh the draw backs and the work force are reluctant to become Pty Ltd. There has been some very underhand methods employed by some but not all the companies pushing this manifesto. Divide and Conquer is one of the axioms at the moment. I was lucky enough to work for one of the companies that actually paid us more for becoming PTY LTD companies andwas stoked about it. an extra $5 per jump at 1000+ per year is an extra 5k. It cost 1k to set up and another 1k for work cover insurance. So an extra 3k+ per year (minus tax) It is a good idea to be pty. ltd. in my opinion but if you work for a company that is not prepared to pay you extra fo doing so, then the issue is not the pty ltd thing but the tight ass/broken ass company you work for not compensating for the extra cost to you. If you pay workcover (in aus) then it ony goes up if you hurt youself and claim personally. If the company pays, then if your workmate hurts themself then the company has to pay more for you and every other intuctor in that company... so it makes sense to have each person on their own insurance plan. If you are still at ASC then that is the problem with your pay, not the PTY LTD thing. Being a contactor without the PTY LTD thing makes it a grey area."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #23 October 13, 2010 Skydive ...... Professionals .... Nope, you lost me there (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
koppel 3 #24 October 13, 2010 If you do 1000+jumps a year somewhere then a couple of bucks goes a long way to making more money. If you do 500-600 jumps a year you need a much bigger increase in income to make it worthwhile. Also job security goes right out the window as Pty Ltd. At least as a contractor there are rights as with being an employee. Work Cover is considerably more in Qld than Nsw which means up here you need yet again an even bigger increase in remuneration for it to be equitable. And lastly, if someone comes to me to negotiate then I will sit down and talk. If someone comes and holds a big stick over me and just tells me my rights are going out the window and I have to do this or that then I stand my groundI like my canopy... ...it lets me down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
koppel 3 #25 October 13, 2010 Oh yeah, nor other thing....... Your a DZ operator now hey? Guess that changes the way you think I like my canopy... ...it lets me down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
