Cypres 2 vs. Vigil 2

[pilotdave 0]

I'd rather go in myself than be responsible for taking a plane full of people down. An AAD failing to fire when it needs to is unfortunate. An AAD firing when it shouldn't is catastrophic.

Failing to fire means an AAD didn't make a bad situation better. Misfiring can mean making a good situation horrible. The odds of NEEDING an AAD on a bailout below 1500 feet are tiny. Has it ever happened? Misfires have killed.

Dave

[billvon 2,406]

>What do you prefer ? A firing into the airplane in very rare cases (I have
>had a Vigil 1 and now the Vigil II without any problem with airplane,
>chopper...open door since 2005) or no firing at all in free fall then no
>protection if knocked out at the door due to the rush of jumpers in case
>of a bail out at 1400 ft.

I would much rather have it not misfire. I can live with dying because I screwed up, and indeed I accept that might happen when I skydive. I would rather not die because something beyond my control killed me.

>For me it is like an insurance car company not covering you within 14
>miles from home for instance.

Well, if the alternative is an insurance company that occasionally might kill you and everyone in your car, I'd take the lack of coverage 14 miles from home.

>A friend of mine and myself (having both a Vigil II) had a Bell 230
> chopper ride at the Summerfest 2010 at Skydive Chicago. The chopper
>stayed flying at few feet from the ground for few seconds, then climbed at
>200-300 feet and dived to the ground again to finally climb for good at
>5000 ft for jumping. NO PROBLEM. Yes the two passenger doors were
>removed. What better example can I give ??

There are literally millions of examples of AAD's of all kinds not misfiring. There are also, unfortunately, a lot of examples of Vigils misfiring due to trunks slamming, aircraft doors opening and transient pressurization events. For many people such things will never happen; for those people Vigils are a cheaper option than a Cypres. (And both are generally better than no AAD at all.)

[davelepka 4]

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There are also, unfortunately, a lot of examples of Vigils misfiring due to trunks slamming, aircraft doors opening and transient pressurization events. For many people such things will never happen; for those people Vigils are a cheaper option than a Cypres.

Can you PM or email me a copy of the list of people that will never happen to?

While you're at it, how about sending me a copy of the list of low timers who can safely jump a camera, wingsuit, and a highly loaded canopy?

[billvon 2,406]

>Can you PM or email me a copy of the list of people that will never happen to?

Well, people who jump Cessnas without doors, whose car does not have a trunk and who will never jump pressurizable aircraft.

[champu 1]

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I prefer to have a firing into the airplane that not being protected in case of a bail out at 1400 ft

Well if someone's Vigil hadn't deployed their reserve over the tail when the door was opened then maybe you wouldn't be needing to bail out at 1400 ft.

I'm only aware of one situation where someone has been saved by an AAD after a low bail-out from a plane that went in, and it was a Cypres. The problems started well above the arming altitude and had they not there is no way anyone would have made it out of the plane.

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If anybody has more info about this "whiskers" problem when using tin-copper joint, I would appreciate to read about it.

NASA Goddard, Aerospace Corp, and JPL have all published tons of materials on this phenomenon. Just google it.

[piisfish 135]

Bill, as much as I am NOT a pro-vigil, nobody should be fearing the fire-in-the-trunk situation. At least not those who have read the manual.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Ron 7]

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What do you prefer ? A firing into the airplane in very rare cases (I have had a Vigil 1 and now the Vigil II without any problem with airplane, chopper...open door since 2005) or no firing at all in free fall then no protection if knocked out at the door due to the rush of jumpers in case of a bail out at 1400 ft.

I'd prefer the one that in a normal situation does not try to kill me.

Opening the door in flight is pretty normal. A 1400 foot exit is not.

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For me it is like an insurance car company not covering you within 14 miles from home for instance

I guess you would prefer the airbag occasionally fire when you roll down the window?

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I am sure you would appreciate that this info is first hand one and the fact I name the location and the conditions.

And I have never had a problem with a Cypres or C2.... Fact is that one single data point is a lousy reference for making a choice.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[billvon 2,406]

>Bill, as much as I am NOT a pro-vigil, nobody should be fearing the fire-in-
>the-trunk situation.

Oh, I agree - and further think that the Vigil is a decent AAD, one that will help you far more often than it hurts you. For people who do not jump pressurizable aircraft or aircraft with certain door types (i.e. Cessnas) they could well be a good choice.

[tonka 2]

Argus is a great option also. Multi-Mode for different applications. Inexpensive and easily replaceable batteries. Four year check can be done within the US for a very fast turnaround time. Guaranteed to last at least 12 years.....the unit can continue use as long as it passes its four year checks.
Im guessing by the ruggedness of the Argus it will go 20+ years.

I have three Argus units and love them

[parachutist 1]

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by the ruggedness of the Argus

How are you judging its ruggedness? I like the fact that the Argus is so small compared to other devices, but it really seems less rugged to me. It has thin cables and a lightweight casing

[erdnarob 1]

The article was on the French review SCIENCE & VIE of October 2010.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[erdnarob 1]

On the Pro mode, it takes 3.5 to 4 seconds to reach 35m/s which corresponds to a vertical distance of 262 ft (for 4 seconds). Using a Vigil in this case, your reserve will be deployed at 840 ft which is 1.7 second after reaching the activation speed when leaving at 1400 ft. As you see it doesn't take too long to get the activation speed therefore your assumption is not exact. There is an actual risk of not being protected in such a case if not using a Vigil.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[sundevil777 94]

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On the Pro mode, it takes 3.5 to 4 seconds to reach 35m/s which corresponds to a vertical distance of 262 ft (for 4 seconds). Using a Vigil in this case, your reserve will be deployed at 840 ft which is 1.7 second after reaching the activation speed when leaving at 1400 ft. As you see it doesn't take too long to get the activation speed therefore your assumption is not exact. There is an actual risk of not being protected in such a case if not using a Vigil.

Your assumptions are what makes your calculation quite invalid.

Even after just 2 seconds of falling, the speed will be about 40% less with the effect of air resistance than you would achieve without it (your assumption). That effect is even greater as you fall longer. It takes a lot more time and distance to reach 35 m/s than you have figured.

Not only that, but when has anyone needed to have their AAD save them in such a scenario?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am