soft vs. hard helmet

[Skyper 0]

guys I searched the site for themes about this topic but I couldn't find anything about it. So here it is:

Long time ago I jumped with a soft helmet. It was made of leather and stuffed with some kind of sponge. In those old days hard helmet was considered "equipment for beginners and dorks"
I still prefer the soft ones. They are more comfortable + I don't feel like doing rafting or motor-biking.

The question is thus: are soft helmets still allowed and what are the differences - except that hard helmet is "harder"?

[727_Jumper 0]

I see your in NL, so I can't speak for there, but here in the US, from my experience, if you're a licensed skydiver, you can wear what you want.

leather 'frap hat's were very popular in the late 80's early 90's when I started, but I always wore a protec if I did wear a helmet.
I still wear a protec (the type that do not cover my ears) when I use a helmet (personal preference)
I see leather frap hats from time to time, not as prevalent as they once were.

I don't think you'll be the source of any joking, regardless of the type of protection you wear (or not).

[skycamefalling 0]

The soft hats you are referring to are called frap hats. With a hard helmet (open or full face) help protect the noggin/face in case you strike your head on exit, during freefly, relative work and or during landings. There is more protection from the hard helmets compared to the frap hats. Hope this helps.

Speedracer~I predict that Michael Jackson will rise from the dead.
And that a giant radioactive duck will emerge from the ocean and eat Baltimore.

[airtwardo 6]

...and what are the differences

Har hats hold the cameras and electro gizmos ya NEED to jump these dayz!

~I wore a frap hat for everything except demos up until a few years ago, got popped in the melon pretty good so I decided a hard hat was cheaper than an AAD.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[theonlyski 3]

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...and what are the differences

Har hats hold the cameras and electro gizmos ya NEED to jump these dayz!

~I wore a frap hat for everything except demos up until a few years ago, got popped in the melon pretty good so I decided a hard hat was cheaper than an AAD.



I noticed you strapped one of those cameras to your hard helmet too...

You sure you're safe flying that thing? I've seen the video!

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[headoverheels 291]

Full face helmets help prevent chapped lips in the winter.

[airtwardo 6]

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...and what are the differences

Har hats hold the cameras and electro gizmos ya NEED to jump these dayz!

~I wore a frap hat for everything except demos up until a few years ago, got popped in the melon pretty good so I decided a hard hat was cheaper than an AAD.

I noticed you strapped one of those cameras to your hard helmet too...

You sure you're safe flying that thing? I've seen the video!

Had one on my foot too today...


What could go wrong?!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Andy9o8 0]

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The question is thus: are soft helmets still allowed and what are the differences - except that hard helmet is "harder"?

Personally, I figure on any jump there's always the possibility I'll get jammed into a door frame, or get kicked in the head, or get crashed-into. Even on a hop & pop, there's always the chance I'll land downwind on pavement, or next to a rock or stump, or under a partially malfunctioned reserve. Or maybe the plane will crash on takeoff or stall on a jump run. So yeah, I always wear a hard helmet.

[DSE 3]

+1, having had a premature deployment in the door of an aircraft early on; I was grateful for a hard helmet (that bears the aircraft paint job embedded in it) when I hit my head.
I can think of one fatality that would have been prevented had a hard helmet been worn vs a frap hat.

[dragon2 0]

Take a look in the BVR.

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Artikel 502 Beschermende verplichtingen ten aanzien van kleding en schoeisel
...
Lid 2. Sportparachutisten in het bezit van ten hoogste een B-brevet dienen bij iedere sprong
geschikte hoofdbescherming en geschikt schoeisel te dragen.
...
Lid 4. Sportparachutisten nog niet in het bezit van een A-brevet dienen bij iedere sprong een
harde helm als hoofdbescherming te dragen.

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Artikel 510 Beschermende verplichtingen voor bijzondere sprongen
...
Lid 6. Freeflysprongen.
...
Bij freefly formatiesprongen is het dragen van een harde helm verplicht.

So, you need to wear a hard helmet up to your A license. You need to wear a helmet of some kind (hard or cap) up to your B license. If you're going to do freefly formation skydiving you need a hard helmet regardless of license.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[councilman24 36]

Back then frap hats or no hats was cool. But about all they do is hold an audible and keep you brains in one place when you bounce. (not really kidding about that) I had a good friend who was wearing a frap hat knocked on concious leaving a DC-3 in 1985. No AOD (as called then) and she died. A lot of folks on the load said they would get a hard hat. Some an AOD. NOBODY changed their gear or habits.

Full face hard hats became popular (Factory Diver) to keep the hot RW teams from kicking each other in the face when they were turning more points than I can ever dream about. Things evolved wiith new companies and new designs. Many are carbon fiber. All most NONE of these hard helmets for skydiving provide anything but bump protection. In fact they can split creating razor sharp edges and slicing your scalp. Do they help over a frap hat? Probably.

But the one that probably offers the best protection, which is still no where near a motorcycle helmet, is a Protec or similar helmet.

So if you want to be cool, spend a few hundred dollars on one of the new ones. If you want to be old school wear a frap hat. If you want a little protection get a Protec or similar and save some money. If you want more protection get a ski helmet. I've never figured out why there can be ski helmets not much bigger that have some certification and better protection.

I still wear a frap hat from time to time when I know who I'm jumping with and jumping from a 182. And usually only with an AAD. Most of the time I wear a Protec now.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[Skyper 0]

thank you guys! thanks all of you! I understood from your posts that hard helmet provides better protection on possible bumps to the plane or emergency landing, it also provides a protection during formation jumps and of course it provide better protection on hard landings.

after reading your answers and arguments for better protection of the head. And after reading the rules posted by Saskia... "geschikt schoeisel" (proper shoes) caught my attention. The shoes are also very interesting one...

On hard landings or even on a bit unsecure landing shoes that protect the foot joint (ankle) are very important.
in the Netheralnds "proper shoes"are mandatory till B-licence.
However I never saw anyone wearing high (deep) shoes which protect the ankle? Even the totaly beginners jump in running shoes or even totaly flat "all star"shoes. So, hard helet but no ankel protection at all. Hmm.

[dragon2 0]

Can't point your toes with ankle high shoes (annoying in freefall for most types of jumps), also most high shoes/boots have hooks on them, that's not allowed.

We do see a lot of military type boots @ Teuge: the clubs who jump rounds wear boots, as they have much harder landings than we do, also the military typically do their 5 SL jumps wearing their own boots.
Nobody else does though, it's not necesarry and not really practical. But if you have high shoes without hooks, sure you can jump them. A few jumpers here do wear high sneaker type shoes, with any hooks removed.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[airtwardo 6]

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Can't point your toes with ankle high shoes (annoying in freefall for most types of jumps), also most high shoes/boots have hooks on them, that's not allowed.

We do see a lot of military type boots @ Teuge: the clubs who jump rounds wear boots, as they have much harder landings than we do, also the military typically do their 5 SL jumps wearing their own boots.
Nobody else does though, it's not necesarry and not really practical. But if you have high shoes without hooks, sure you can jump them. A few jumpers here do wear high sneaker type shoes, with any hooks removed.

I always wear leather high top Nike 'basketball' shoes, they are fairly smooth on the bottom so they slide at speed and won't dig into the turf popping a knee...there are no hooks on them, and lace up high enough to give 'some' ankle protection, when they are broken in I have no problems toe pointing....~and they are inexpensive!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[mjosparky 3]

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Can't point your toes with ankle high shoes (annoying in freefall for most types of jumps), also most high shoes/boots have hooks on them, that's not allowed.

We do see a lot of military type boots @ Teuge: the clubs who jump rounds wear boots, as they have much harder landings than we do, also the military typically do their 5 SL jumps wearing their own boots.
Nobody else does though, it's not necesarry and not really practical. But if you have high shoes without hooks, sure you can jump them. A few jumpers here do wear high sneaker type shoes, with any hooks removed.

I always wear leather high top Nike 'basketball' shoes, they are fairly smooth on the bottom so they slide at speed and won't dig into the turf popping a knee...there are no hooks on them, and lace up high enough to give 'some' ankle protection, when they are broken in I have no problems toe pointing....~and they are inexpensive!

I thought you this type of boot?

Sparky

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp55/mjosparky/Skydiving/FrenchBoots.jpg

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[tbrown 26]

They're still allowed & are standard issue at some dropzones for tandem students, because the TI's understandably don't want to hit in the face with a hard helmet.

That said, I never wore the damn things even back in the day. All they're good for is keeping your brains from making a big mess after you're already dead. I personally knew one woman who BOUNCED after hitting her head on a door frame and knocking herself out in the pre-Cypres days of the 1980's.

I also know & jump with a guy who was wearing a frap hat until he got bashed in the face so hard he almost passed out this summer. He now wears a full face helmet. I've even finally made the transition to a full "winshield" myself, which has already fended off a few feet & elbows.

You're a grownup and this is America, you do what you want.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[riggerrob 558]

The primary advantage of high-top basketball shoes is that that you can pull laces tight enough to squeeze the tibia and fibula together so that they support each other.
You will rarely land hard enough to break both bones in your lower leg.
A variety of athletic ankle braces do the same function.

[erdnarob 1]

Resist to the peer pressure to use a hard shell helmet if you don't feel for it. Use a helmet you find the most comfortable and having a good peripheral vision. The frap hat leather helmet is one of those.
A good test is the following : with your helmet on could you see your reserve handle ? A lot of them are not allowing that. With full face helmets, even with your chin against the chest (actually the chin side of the helmet), it's generally hard to see the reserve ripcord handle.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[rhys 0]

Here in NZ it is mandatory for tandem students to have a soft helmet.

The instructor can wear either but all must wear helmets on tandems.

Tandems are about 95% of skydives in NZ so you see plenty of leather hats around.

I just bought my first leather helmet. My friend makes them with padding in but without those silly looking sausages running up the sides.

Those always put me off leather helmets but my new one is quite slick.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[Skyper 0]

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I just bought my first leather helmet. My friend makes them with padding in but without those silly looking sausages running up the sides.

Those always put me off leather helmets but my new one is quite slick.

Hi rhys, could you please post the picture it?