Don't use paypal

[davjohns 1]

I've used it for years and thought it was great.

I recently sold a scope, scope stand and few other shooting things to someone. He paid with paypal. The post office lost the rods to the scope stand. He got the empty tube (signature required). I reported it. The post office said they had a system for finding them, but it took time. I kept the buyer informed. He was getting anxious, so I purchased brand new rods for him and had them shipped to him. He sent me an email confirming he had everything. I went into paypal to discover he had reported to them that he did not receive anything. I gave their dispute center the story and a copy of his email confirming receipt. They gave him a refund. I called the dispute center to find out why. They told me that his signature was irrelevant and his email confirming receipt was irrelevant. I had to have a tracking number or they give a refund. They said if you read their suggestions for safe selling, they recommend tracking numbers.

I closed my account.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[likestojump 3]

So the USPS fucked up, but you recommend we don't use the payment processor ?

Paypal mandates a proof of delivery via a signature confirmation of delivery in addition to proof of shipment for any item over $250 in order to use the seller protection services.

Signed,
someone who has processed millions of dollars worth of payments through Paypal since the late 90s, as well as has shipped thousands of packages through USPS/FedEx/UPS

[davjohns 1]

I'm still looking on their website and can't find that they require signature confirmation. I have it. They said they didn't want it. And the trasaction was less than $250...so I guess it's not important.

I don't blame them for what the buyer did. I blame them because they gave him a refund in the face of clear evidence that he received the items.

I also didn't mention that the first email I received on the matter was the one telling me they had made the refund. Apparently they don't inform you of a problem until they've decided against you. I found the problem by accident when I went to transfer the money to my bank account. I don't consider it my money until the buyer is satisfied. Silly me.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[davjohns 1]

Update-

I decided to check the number on the signature confirmation receipt. Turns out it works as a tracking number as well. We'll see if paypal honors that. They told me they would not honor his signature confirmation.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[likestojump 3]

Seller Protection info : https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=security/seller_protection_learn_more

And I call BS on them never notifying you. They have a Resolution Center section on their site, and once the Buyer opens a dispute the Seller has chance to fight it. re : https://www.paypal.com/bg/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/Marketing/securitycenter/sell/SellerGuide-outside

I have been on both sides of the Disputes with Paypal, so I am going from first hand knowledge when I tell you that the system does work.

[ryoder 1,412]

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I have been on both sides of the Disputes with Paypal, so I am going from first hand knowledge when I tell you that the system does work.

The same PayPal who told me I was not entitled to a refund after a seller sold me a bricked network power controller, because "I had received the shipment"? Oh, yeah, that works really well. The seller never responded to my messages, and his eBay account vanished at the same time.

Oh, yeah, PayPal really has your back.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[SkyDekker 1,155]

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The same PayPal who told me I was not entitled to a refund after a seller sold me a bricked network power controller, because "I had received the shipment"? Oh, yeah, that works really well. The seller never responded to my messages, and his eBay account vanished at the same time.

Oh, yeah, PayPal really has your back.

Why would PayPal give you your money back for that?

Should they wait 1 day to see if it keeps working. Then, how is it proven whether it works or not and if the buyer broke it after opening?

You want better protection, buy in a store with a good refund policy.

[Krip 2]

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I have been on both sides of the Disputes with Paypal, so I am going from first hand knowledge when I tell you that the system does work.

The same PayPal who told me I was not entitled to a refund after a seller sold me a bricked network power controller, because "I had received the shipment"? Oh, yeah, that works really well. The seller never responded to my messages, and his eBay account vanished at the same time.

Oh, yeah, PayPal really has your back.

YMMV

Sounds like Paypal has a quota

Next

One Jump Wonder

[likestojump 3]

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I have been on both sides of the Disputes with Paypal, so I am going from first hand knowledge when I tell you that the system does work.

The same PayPal who told me I was not entitled to a refund after a seller sold me a bricked network power controller, because "I had received the shipment"? Oh, yeah, that works really well. The seller never responded to my messages, and his eBay account vanished at the same time.

Oh, yeah, PayPal really has your back.

Paypal has gone leaps and bounds to booster both Buyer and Seller protection, but at the end it's still merely a payment processor.

Imagine that you sent the seller of your bricked item a money order - the transaction would be no different, yet you would probably not go badmouthing the bank that issued the MO since their only duty was to honor the payment when presented.

Your problem is first and foremost with the seller, and secondly with eBay (who as of a few years ago offer a very solid Buyer Protection program, which in your case would have had you send the product back within a reasonable amount of time and upon proof of delivery, they would issue a refund to you, regardless of sellers objections)

Pretty much any vendor or service provider that you use is bound to either make a mistake or upset you through some of their action. If you decide to forgo doing business with that entity you will pretty soon find yourself living in the cave and eating ground worms.

[Bellyflier 0]

yeah I've that happen also. Won't use paypal or ebay anymore. Banks will do the same thing though, all the buyer has to do if he paid with a credit or debit card is dispute it. Had that happen to. Cash is really the only way not to get screwed, but who uses cash anymore.

[davjohns 1]

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And I call BS on them never notifying you. They have a Resolution Center section on their site, and once the Buyer opens a dispute the Seller has chance to fight it. re : https://www.paypal.com/bg/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/Marketing/securitycenter/sell/SellerGuide-outside

I hope you are saying BS for them not sending me an email. When I saw that he had placed a hold on it, I checked my email thoroughly. Nothing from paypal.

I did, however, get an email from the buyer today. He says he was going to start a dispute, but changed his mind and never submitted it. He was surprised to see he received a refund. He was not notified of anything by email either. He intends to resubmit payment.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[Krip 2]

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And I call BS on them never notifying you. They have a Resolution Center section on their site, and once the Buyer opens a dispute the Seller has chance to fight it. re : https://www.paypal.com/bg/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/Marketing/securitycenter/sell/SellerGuide-outside

I hope you are saying BS for them not sending me an email. When I saw that he had placed a hold on it, I checked my email thoroughly. Nothing from paypal.

I did, however, get an email from the buyer today. He says he was going to start a dispute, but changed his mind and never submitted it. He was surprised to see he received a refund. He was not notified of anything by email either. He intends to resubmit payment.

I was hoping for that.

In spite of the apearence of a objective system (paypal) where YMMV . Your transaction came down to two people that were both honorable.

One Jump Wonder

[devildog 0]

paypalsucks.com

Well worth the read. PP is not friendly and if you use them long enough, you'll get burned

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.