masterrig 1 #1 August 31, 2004 Had a 'little' discussion in regard to 'flop' or 'roll' packing main parachutes at our DZ, this past week-end and am looking for ideas, pros - cons. Thanks, in advance for any in-put. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #2 August 31, 2004 A stack pack is a better option. The nose can still be oriented forward, and the tail wrapped around like a pro pack. Reserves are often packed that way. A rigger should be able to show you how to do it for a main.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #3 August 31, 2004 QuoteReserves are often packed that way. A rigger should be able to show you how to do it for a main. Psssst. Click on his profile.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #4 August 31, 2004 Chuck, I use a version of the flop pack on a Sharpchuter and have had good results for several years and over 1500 jumps with it. I lay it flat, fold the nose over to the "A" lines. Then fold the "A" lines over to the "B" lines. Fold the "D" lines over to the "C" lines and quarter the tail down toward the rig. Now set the brakes and bring the slider up to the stops and between the stabilizers. Fold the "D"/"C" line stack in to the middle and then fold the "A"/"B" line stack over that. "S" fold and place in bag. I have used it on a varity of Lo-Po 7 cells over the years and has always worked. Sparky PS: If you know a good rigger, he can help you with this.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #5 August 31, 2004 QuoteQuoteReserves are often packed that way. A rigger should be able to show you how to do it for a main. Psssst. Click on his profile. People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #6 August 31, 2004 Lets go pack my canopy like this next week. ---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #7 August 31, 2004 QuoteLets go pack my canopy like this next week. Works for me!My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #8 August 31, 2004 Hey, Sparky! Someone started talking about various ways of packing mains and this method came-up in the conversation. I recall, years back, seeing a lot of line burning to mains that were flop-packed. Probaby, from getting in a hurry. One person suggested, a 'higher risk' of line-overs with a 'pro-pack'. Thanks, for the in-put. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #9 August 31, 2004 This is the only pack job that is truely asymetrical and loads one side of the canopy differently than the other. A standard pre pro pack stack pack, fold nose, b on a, c on b, d on c, split and cocoon the tail is still a Proper Ramair Orientation. The canopy is collapsed side to side and s folded front to back. It just starts off turned 90 degrees. The only difference between that and a pro pack is whether the fabric is s folded out each side individually or s folded back and forth all together. The flop pack has one side "hidden" inside the flop and has to "unroll" in an asymetric manner before inflating. The only pro I know is that it tends to distribute the material side to side in the bag/container better. Our DZ used a flop pack for student Mantas for many years because of the more even bulk. It worked fine with no more malfunctions than normal. I don't have a feel for of heading openings because nobody cared with students, only one jumper in the air. Certainly, for high performance canopies with high performance lines I'd prefer a symetrical pack job. For non zp with dacron lines I still prefer either symetrical pack job but don't believe the flop pack is "BAD".I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #10 August 31, 2004 Thanks, Terry! I appreciate your in-put. When it came to packing 'student' Mantas, I was taught the good'ol book pack. I'm curious, are the openings, any more or less 'brisk' with 'flop' pack in comparison to a 'book' pack? Thanks, Chuck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #11 August 31, 2004 I don't think the pack method in this case is the major contributor to opening speed. You might expect the flop pack to be slower but I don't think that was our experience.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #13 August 31, 2004 Hmmmm, the ghost post.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #14 August 31, 2004 I think, you answered my question! I have contended, the 'flop' pack, opened faster. just from observing openings of student mains that were 'flop' packed and 'experienced' jumper's mains, that were 'pro' packed. Thanks, Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #16 August 31, 2004 I used to roll-pack my Strato-Cloud - to soften openings - when I jumped in Claresholm, Alberta (3,500 feet MSL). But that technique did not transfer gracefully to wing-loadings exceeding 1:1. We flop-packed F-111 Strong Tandem mains - for years - but that never resulted in comfortable openings (using the factory-recommended method). You always got slammed in one shoulder or the other. We never got comfortable openings on F-111 tandem mains until we started Pro-packing. With Pro-packing, openings were still hard, but at least they were symmetrical. The only canopies I still flop-pack, assymetrically (as per the manual) are Strong tandem reserves, but that is a case of trying to slow openings at tandem terminal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybill 18 #17 August 31, 2004 Hi Rig, Flip, Flop, Roll, Pro, Trash, U-Name-it they all have their place. Take Sparky's post a notch further. I put the slider on top of the stabs. and fold the d-c and a-b to the middle, butted against each other. Then fold the d-c over the a-b. Take about 10" fold from the slider/stabs. and pull it up on top. Rotate canopy 90 degrees and fold top down over the rest. The whole package fits the bag perfect! Had to take 2" out of my closing loop. Some of my friends named my pack job the "Deli-Roll!" Works fine on most 7 and 9 cell F-111 / lo-po type canopys. Worked fine on my Dragonfly and Rascal also on PD-230 and 210's I've jumped. Nice soft on heading openings. Rich Iccobachi asked me to show him the Deli-Roll as his PD-230 was wacking him on opening. When he came down from the jump with the Deli-roll I asked how it was, he said," I let go of the pilotchute and didn't feel anything so I thought I had a mal, I looked up and the canopy was open and flying fine!!" Yup, just transition from vertical to horizontal flight with little or no stress on you or your canopy!! As far as zp elipticals, I stick with pro-packing. As for line burns on some roll packs, I'm not surprised the way I've seen a few roll packs done. Good luck if you try a roll-pack on a ZP eliptical, you're probably in for Mr. Toad's Wild Ride!!SCR-2034, SCS-680 III%, Deli-out Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #18 August 31, 2004 Hey Bill, Get you ass out to Calif. and lets jump. I have been using the pack I described since you were living out here. No line burns and I think due too the size of the canopy, the openings are soft and on heading. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #19 August 31, 2004 Hey, Rob! Isn't the Strong Tandem Reserve, per the mfgr's. instructions, kind of a 'hi-brid' 'flop - book' pack? The A - B lines being rolled or flopped where the C - D lines are 'stacked. I never got into straight 'flop' packing. My first parachute was an old Classiflier with a 26' Navy conical, 4-line release reserve and a Maverone main. That, I book packed. Mainly because, noone at our DZ, really knew or understood pro-packing, which was rather new at the time. Later, after I got into Z-P (Sabre -170), I pro-packed, which I pretty much, taught myself. This thread has been interesting as well as informative! It'a all a learning curve. Thanks! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #20 August 31, 2004 I've seen one or two openings where an eliptical was 'flop' packed... you could hear the screams from the ground! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #21 August 31, 2004 I've Roll packed every single canopy I've owned several times just to see how they would open. My Xaos was pointed sideways out of the bag but the opening was nice and comfy. Same results with the stilettos. I Suspect since the lines tend to get twisted up, that those people with the slammers, failed to get the slider all the way up.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 20 #22 August 31, 2004 QuoteI've Roll packed every single canopy I've owned several times just to see how they would open. Fantastic research! Everyone should do this. You can pack any parachute with any method and it works fine if you know what you are doing. Some pack jobs are a bit more symmetrical than others. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #23 August 31, 2004 QuoteFantastic research! Everyone should do this. OOOohhh.. I don't know about that. Maybe you were kidding? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #24 August 31, 2004 I followed hookitt's lead.....They work on elipticals too. No matter what pack job is used, the key to good openings is getting the slider where it belongs. Once out of the bag, not a lot else seems to matter. Prior to that things like stowing risers cleanly, and making sure there is enough slack line in the container help to pervent linetwists.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #25 August 31, 2004 We've got a guy at our DZ like that. I have seen him 'flop' pack everything from a Pegasus to a Stiletto and about everything in-between. He swears by it. He started jumping in the '70's, about the time squares were just making a 'splash' in the sport and the Paradactyl was becoming passe'. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
