ScratchTX 0 #1 June 22, 2004 How could I safely cut a window in my bridle and make a mark on the kill-line on my pull-out PC bridle? Since the bridle is fully inside the container when it is closed, it won't help with a gear check once I'm packed, but I'd like to be able to visually check it right before I s-fold the bridle in there. The kill line on my new, properly made PC is very slippery, and I think this contributed to some problems I was having with PC hesitation. Re-cocking frequently during packing, even after the canopy is bagged, has (so far) seemed to stop this problem. On a related note, I read a recent thread about how partially uncocked PC's are very unlikely to "re-cock" themselves in a throw-out system -- but I am thinking that with a pull-out this might be more possible, since there is a straight unobstructed path from PC apex to bag. Thoughts on that? (With the hesitations, I always had normal openings after.) Of course it could just be my deployment technique that was causing the hesitations, but i spent so much time being so aware and careful of how and where I put that PC in the air, and experiencing occasional hesitations anyway, I am leaning more toward the partially uncocked theory. Either that, or unconscious changes in my body position/movement were making it happen. Being able to visually confirm that the PC is indeed fully cocked would at least rule out one possible cause, if I started having the hesitations again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #2 June 22, 2004 QuoteHow could I safely cut a window in my bridle and make a mark on the kill-line on my pull-out PC bridle? Take a seam ripper to the bidle for about 4 inches where you want the window to be. Fold back under each side 1/4 inch and re-sew it. QuoteThe kill line on my new, properly made PC is very slippery, and I think this contributed to some problems I was having with PC hesitation. Re-cocking frequently during packing, even after the canopy is bagged, has (so far) seemed to stop this problem. A slipperly kill line isn't the culprit. It might be too short though. Holding the bag in place pull tension on the base of the PC, simulating the force the PC puts on the bridle during deployment. The bridle will stretch. There should still be a litle slack in the kill line inside the PC. QuoteOn a related note, I read a recent thread about how partially uncocked PC's are very unlikely to "re-cock" themselves in a throw-out system -- but I am thinking that with a pull-out this might be more possible, since there is a straight unobstructed path from PC apex to bag. Thoughts on that? (With the hesitations, I always had normal openings after.) Sounds reasonable. Less friction would make it easier to cock itself. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #3 June 22, 2004 QuoteOn a related note, I read a recent thread about how partially uncocked PC's are very unlikely to "re-cock" themselves in a throw-out system -- but I am thinking that with a pull-out this might be more possible, since there is a straight unobstructed path from PC apex to bag. Thoughts on that? The thing that I noticed while packing about the possibility of a PC cocking itself is where the extra kill line goes: looped in the bag, with the canopy shoved in on top. If the canopy's wrinkles "grab" the kill line, that would make it harder for the PC to cock itself. I haven't ground tested this, but I know my canopy will form a virtual knot with the kill line if I ever forget to cock my PC and then go to jump. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoter 0 #4 June 23, 2004 I have the same issue on my system....no window on the Bridal to 'check' the kill line.... Tell you what....I didnt like it at first , but now Im so used to checking it several times at sevral different points in the pack job...its not even an issue.....and surely getting used to checking it several times, aint a bad thing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,384 #5 June 23, 2004 Quote The thing that I noticed while packing about the possibility of a PC cocking itself is where the extra kill line goes: looped in the bag, with the canopy shoved in on top. If the canopy's wrinkles "grab" the kill line, that would make it harder for the PC to cock itself. I haven't ground tested this, but I know my canopy will form a virtual knot with the kill line if I ever forget to cock my PC and then go to jump. I can't understand WHY some companies continue to build collapsible PC's this way. A quick glance at how the Relative Workshop does it proves there is a hell of a lot better way to do it."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #6 June 23, 2004 QuoteA quick glance at how the Relative Workshop does it proves there is a hell of a lot better way to do it. Have you noticed with the RWS system that when its new, the stiffness of the bridle can push the kill like semi-uncocked? I noticed this a bit over the past couple years, with various new Vector3/M-series/Microns. By no means was it a scientific study, just something I noticed.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,384 #7 June 23, 2004 QuoteQuoteA quick glance at how the Relative Workshop does it proves there is a hell of a lot better way to do it. Have you noticed with the RWS system that when its new, the stiffness of the bridle can push the kill like semi-uncocked? I noticed this a bit over the past couple years, with various new Vector3/M-series/Microns. By no means was it a scientific study, just something I noticed. I hadn't noticed that happening, but I like the fact that I can cock the bridle with the canopy bagged and in the container just before closing the flaps. And I don't need to worry about the killline capturing the canopy. In fact, my standard procedure is to cock the PC before I start packing, and then cock it again just before closing the container, to ensure I never pack an uncocked PC. I adopted this practice after the day I had packed my rig, and then about an hour later it occured to me I couldn't remember cocking the PC. So I pulled out the PC, and sure enough, I had packed myself a mal."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScratchTX 0 #8 June 24, 2004 QuoteQuote Take a seam ripper to the bidle for about 4 inches where you want the window to be. Fold back under each side 1/4 inch and re-sew it. I can't quite visualize this, but that's okay -- I'd ask a rigger in person to show me before I go cutting away on my PC bridle, anyway. Good to know it is possible though. Quote A slipperly kill line isn't the culprit. It might be too short though. Holding the bag in place pull tension on the base of the PC, simulating the force the PC puts on the bridle during deployment. The bridle will stretch. There should still be a litle slack in the kill line inside the PC. Hmm. There is slack there -- the piece of nylon inside the PC hits its limit before the kill line. But after I cock it, just moving the canopy around during packing will cause it to come partially uncocked -- about 4-5" worth of kill line. It just feels... slippery. My old PC, when I cocked it, it felt like there was a little bit of friction in there between the kill line and bridle. This one just slides, super smooth, like buttah...and it slides back just as easily it seems. Oh well, so far so good with the frequent checks and at least I know I can cut a window in there if I want it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #9 June 24, 2004 QuoteI can't quite visualize this, but that's okay -- I'd ask a rigger in person to show me before I go cutting away on my PC bridle, anyway. Good to know it is possible though. Seam rip the bridle apart, and cut one side. Folding back each edge 1/4 inch will give you a 1/2 inch window. Hard to describe, easier to do. QuoteHmm. There is slack there -- the piece of nylon inside the PC hits its limit before the kill line. But after I cock it, just moving the canopy around during packing will cause it to come partially uncocked -- about 4-5" worth of kill line. It just feels... slippery. My old PC, when I cocked it, it felt like there was a little bit of friction in there between the kill line and bridle. This one just slides, super smooth, like buttah...and it slides back just as easily it seems. Oh well, so far so good with the frequent checks and at least I know I can cut a window in there if I want it. When do you cock your PC? If you do it too soon, the bag can slide down the kill line, collapsing the PC, too late and the kill line can wrap around the canopy material preventing it from being cocked fully. I always cocked mine after laying the canopy on the ground and before putting it in the bag. That way friction, or lack thereof shouldn't matter. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jmidgley 0 #10 June 24, 2004 Hi Following a conversation with a rigger who's opinion I value, I determined that my kill line was right on the verge of being too short - at full 'cock', the apex tapes were at the same tension as the kill line. I replaced the kill line, and now always cock the chute, not by pulling on the hacky, but by reaching in at the base of the PC and pulling the kill line through the bridle. This serves two purposes - since I dont have a window either, it allows me to see by glancing through the mesh, right up until the moment I put the PC in the pouch, that there's a bend in the kill line when the apex tapes are taut and therefore the chute is cocked. It also prevents kill line shrinkage creeping up on me un-noticed, since I see it every pack job. In your case I suppose it might have the collateral benefit of allowing an inch or so of 'creep' before it starts to affect the PC - it also saves that thing I hate to see; people HEAVING on the hacky, trying to wring every last millimetre of kill line out, when by just a gentle tug at the kill line itself, you can leave the stitching on the hack unmolested for when you need it... Now you can all queue up and tell me why no one else does this, and why it's going to kill me. Regards John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ScratchTX 0 #11 June 24, 2004 [replyQuoteWhen do you cock your PC? If you do it too soon, the bag can slide down the kill line, collapsing the PC, too late and the kill line can wrap around the canopy material preventing it from being cocked fully. I always cocked mine after laying the canopy on the ground and before putting it in the bag. That way friction, or lack thereof shouldn't matter. I cock it too soon. Then I cock it again right before bagging the canopy, and then I check it again when the lines are stowed, and then I check it again before I close the first flap. (Which I know is really too late, as the kill line and nylon tape is all smashed up with the canopy material then. But it still makes me feel better) You know, I guess I don't really need that window after all... I think I pretty much have it covered now (except for the videotaped documentation of me cocking it four times, and the checklist entries, and the auditory "PC is cocked" alert) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. 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Hooknswoop 19 #9 June 24, 2004 QuoteI can't quite visualize this, but that's okay -- I'd ask a rigger in person to show me before I go cutting away on my PC bridle, anyway. Good to know it is possible though. Seam rip the bridle apart, and cut one side. Folding back each edge 1/4 inch will give you a 1/2 inch window. Hard to describe, easier to do. QuoteHmm. There is slack there -- the piece of nylon inside the PC hits its limit before the kill line. But after I cock it, just moving the canopy around during packing will cause it to come partially uncocked -- about 4-5" worth of kill line. It just feels... slippery. My old PC, when I cocked it, it felt like there was a little bit of friction in there between the kill line and bridle. This one just slides, super smooth, like buttah...and it slides back just as easily it seems. Oh well, so far so good with the frequent checks and at least I know I can cut a window in there if I want it. When do you cock your PC? If you do it too soon, the bag can slide down the kill line, collapsing the PC, too late and the kill line can wrap around the canopy material preventing it from being cocked fully. I always cocked mine after laying the canopy on the ground and before putting it in the bag. That way friction, or lack thereof shouldn't matter. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jmidgley 0 #10 June 24, 2004 Hi Following a conversation with a rigger who's opinion I value, I determined that my kill line was right on the verge of being too short - at full 'cock', the apex tapes were at the same tension as the kill line. I replaced the kill line, and now always cock the chute, not by pulling on the hacky, but by reaching in at the base of the PC and pulling the kill line through the bridle. This serves two purposes - since I dont have a window either, it allows me to see by glancing through the mesh, right up until the moment I put the PC in the pouch, that there's a bend in the kill line when the apex tapes are taut and therefore the chute is cocked. It also prevents kill line shrinkage creeping up on me un-noticed, since I see it every pack job. In your case I suppose it might have the collateral benefit of allowing an inch or so of 'creep' before it starts to affect the PC - it also saves that thing I hate to see; people HEAVING on the hacky, trying to wring every last millimetre of kill line out, when by just a gentle tug at the kill line itself, you can leave the stitching on the hack unmolested for when you need it... Now you can all queue up and tell me why no one else does this, and why it's going to kill me. Regards John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScratchTX 0 #11 June 24, 2004 [replyQuoteWhen do you cock your PC? If you do it too soon, the bag can slide down the kill line, collapsing the PC, too late and the kill line can wrap around the canopy material preventing it from being cocked fully. I always cocked mine after laying the canopy on the ground and before putting it in the bag. That way friction, or lack thereof shouldn't matter. I cock it too soon. Then I cock it again right before bagging the canopy, and then I check it again when the lines are stowed, and then I check it again before I close the first flap. (Which I know is really too late, as the kill line and nylon tape is all smashed up with the canopy material then. But it still makes me feel better) You know, I guess I don't really need that window after all... I think I pretty much have it covered now (except for the videotaped documentation of me cocking it four times, and the checklist entries, and the auditory "PC is cocked" alert) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
