Expired Cypres

[mazevedo 0]

What do you think about jumping a expired Cypres (over 12 years and three months)? Do you prefer to jump a expired one than jump with none?

I am asking this because in the brazilian forum, a guy told that he prefer to jump a expired one. I do not. In my opinion, I know that there is a security factor that probably increase the lifetime but, jumping an expired unit is like jumping with a clock bomb on your back. I would jump with none (actually, my Cypres is just coming and I am jumping with none).

[RyanofOZ 0]

I would never jump anything past its life expectancy date. As you said.... Time bomb. Just think of what a reserve deployment going head-down would do to you. How about a fire at 200 feet on final, or in the door of the plane! Not worth it IMO.

Oz

[headoverheels 291]

In the US, I don't think most riggers would pack an expired Cypres into a reserve. To answer your question; being expired would not bother me.

[mazevedo 0]

In Brasil, either. Maybe the guy just let it expire and ignore it. Or a friend pack it, or himselft. Who knows? The point is that the electronic components may be corrupted causing an unexpected deployment. As I said, the security factor may extend the lifetime for years but, who knows? I prefer to jump with none than jump with an expired.

[councilman24 36]

In the US it is now ILLEGAL to jump, and therefore to pack and certify as airworthy, an AAD not maintained according to the manufacturers instructions. Part of last change to FAR part 105 and only non-TSO'd device regulated.

So, if a rigger packs it, a jumper jumps it, or a pilot flies the jumper to altitude, they're all braking the FAR's.

Does it stop working at 12 years 3month and 1 day? No, neither does your reserve after 120 days. But at some point the risk out weighs the benifit. Of course the legal aspects in the US make that moot.


Chairman, PIA Rigging Committee

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[BlueSBDeath 2]

"reserve deployment going head-down would do to you. How about a fire at 200 feet on final, or in the door of the plane"

Do you know that all of those situations can occur with a current working not expired AAD?

Arvel

BSBD...........Its all about Respect,

USPA#-7062, FB-2197, Outlaw 499

[FrogNog 1]

Quote

"reserve deployment going head-down would do to you. How about a fire at 200 feet on final, or in the door of the plane"

Do you know that all of those situations can occur with a current working not expired AAD?

Arvel

I'm sure they do, but they assume that a current Cypres-1 AAD is "guaranteed" (well, not guaranteed, but expressly intended and as well as possible tested) not to cause those things to happen by the fault of the device. And they assume that a Cypres-1 AAD that has outlived its 12-year lifespan is no longer within the mfgr's ability to "guarantee" the device will perform as intended and tested.

I apologize, any Cypres guys, for my use of the word "guarantee" when, in skydiving, the only guarantee is that if you live, you may be able to get your purchase price back. But I couldn't think of a better word.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[jmfreefly 0]

say what?

So on 12 years + 1 day, all electronics discombobulate?

The only reason SSK doesn't have more than a 12 year lifespan is 2 fold: 1) They don't have data on how the components hold up after 12 years and 2) They have a vested interest in selling new cyrpesses.

They previously extended the usable life to 12 years. I wouldn't be surprised if they extended it again. I wouldn't throw away a 12 year cypress just yet.


j

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

They previously extended the usable life to 12 years. I wouldn't be surprised if they extended it again. I wouldn't throw away a 12 year cypress just yet.

They recently came out with the Cypres 2, would you like to buy my expired Cypres I? It's not likely they will extend its life.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[BlueSBDeath 2]

You said that special word, "ASS-U-ME", this has killed more skydivers than than the color pink!!

Arvel

BSBD...........Its all about Respect,

USPA#-7062, FB-2197, Outlaw 499

[RyanofOZ 0]

Sure do, but the situation would be different. Deployment going HD would happen if you were an idiot and lost alt awareness. At 200 ft would be a downplane of hell of a dive. The other way is that it misfires which can occur. The chances of that happening with one thats within its service paramaters though, is far less IMO that one that is not. In skydiving, we all know anyting can happn. Its just common sense to try and make the fudge factor of gear as small as possible. Why make something more risky for no benefit?

Oz

[masterrig 1]

SSK, didn't set the 'life-span' of 12-yrs., AirTec set the limit. As you stated, they aren't really sure of the 'actual' life of Cypres so the 12-yr. limit was set arbitrarily.

Chuck

[BlueSBDeath 2]

The more we add to our gear, AAD, RSL, Sky-Hook, the more complicated the decision tree becomes for all types of emergncies. You must master this tree or you will fall from it and hit the ground.

Simpler is safer, trust YOU to pull and YOU to do the right thing at the right time.

Arvel

BSBD...........Its all about Respect,

USPA#-7062, FB-2197, Outlaw 499

[mazevedo 0]

Problably they do empirical tests simulating a 12 years use of the equipment. For example: They take an average # of jumps that a jumpmaster use to do an year and simulate the temperature, pressure and landing conditions. They will observe when the unit start to fail and can set a lifetime to the equipment.

And we have to know that this equipment is used all around the world, with different weather conditions.

Edited to correct my bad english!

[pilotdave 0]

What makes you think they haven't done testing like that? Maybe that's exactly how they came up with the 12 year limit.

Personally I wouldn't jump with a 12 year old cypres because it's illegal here AND because I have no clue how they came up with the 12 year limit. I don't know if there is a good reason why they can't just do a 12 year inspection and trust the built in diagnostics. If the manufacturer truly does not trust the units after they've been operating for 12 years, why should I? Nothing magical happens the day a cypres becomes a teenager, but 12 years is the longest airtec trusts all units will work reliably. Beyond that, plus a margin for error, I'm sure they've determined that some units, possibly those that haven't been properly cared for, will start to fail. So your perfectly cared for 12 year old cypres might work fine, but it might not. Why risk it? I'd rather jump with no cypres than a cypres that may fire when I don't want it to or not fire when I expect it to. (And sure, to some extent that's true of every cypres, but at least I know that misfires are rare and if it doesn't fire when I need it to, well, it's just not my day).

Dave

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

They previously extended the usable life to 12 years. I wouldn't be surprised if they extended it again. I wouldn't throw away a 12 year cypress just yet.

No they didn't. At the 9 1/2 year mark AirTech had no life limit on the Cypres. At the 10 year mark, they decided the risk of componant failure vs. lifespan, vs. repalcaement cost had resached a point where by the found in reasonable to place a manufacturers 12 year lifespan.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Thinquar 0]

I have a 17year old rig with a Cypres 1 still in it, all with only about 50 jumps on it. I was recently given this by a friend who used to jump with me back in 2000/2001 but decided the sport wasn't for him and stored all his gear in a cupboard until I persuaded him to let me have it a few months ago. I'll be taking it to Langar, UK, in the next couple of months to have it fully checked out by a rigger and expecting that the lines at least would have to be replaced. Now it seems I'm in for a little additional cost after reading these posts. Better safe than sorry though.

[timski 80]

BlueSBDeath

"reserve deployment going head-down would do to you. How about a fire at 200 feet on final, or in the door of the plane"

Do you know that all of those situations can occur with a current working not expired AAD?

Arvel

Pay no attention to a Golden Knight who jumps a Racer!!!
LOL, love ya man!

[20_kN 0]

timski

***"reserve deployment going head-down would do to you. How about a fire at 200 feet on final, or in the door of the plane"

Do you know that all of those situations can occur with a current working not expired AAD?

Arvel

Pay no attention to a Golden Knight who jumps a Racer!!!
LOL, love ya man!

That post is 15 years old... Also, I would like to see a report of any recent (say last 15 years) case where an AAD fired 200' off the ground or in the door of an airplane. My understanding is that modern AADs are extremely reliable.