Has anyone discovered a "fatal" rigging error on a reserve?

[skydiverek 60]

Has anyone discovered "fatal" rigging error on a reserve?

I remember a picture in Skydiving magazine in 1996 or 1997 showing a reserve that was opened on the ground for a repack and was found with a molar strap wrapped around it. The jumper had made over 100 jumps with such a setup, having basically no reserve, and obviously not knowing about it.

So, my queastion is: has any rigger here opened a reserve on the ground for a repack and discovered that it was in a condition that would have meant a "certain death", had it been used? No places or names needed, just stories.

[riggerrob 561]

Stir that muck!
Yeehaa!

[hookitt 0]

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Stir that muck!
Yeehaa!

Ditto

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[Praetorian 1]

I see some (limited) value in discussing these errors, I think its important for jumpers to know riggers aren't error proof, to pick your rigger with care. I also agree that keeping the riggers name out of it is cool, unless he/she has repeatedly made mistakes and is unrepentent, in that case PM me the name so I can make sure to never trust my life to that rigger

Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad
judgment.

[hookitt 0]

Read riggerrobs comments in the packing error thread. There are links to sites that show mistakes in that thread as well.

The purpose to this thread is for shock value.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[KevinMcGuire 0]

Yep. I once repcked a racer that had (in my opinion) three things wrong with it that would have killed the jumper if he had tryed to use the reserve.
First, the pop top refused to launch after pulling the handle. (Thats a biggie) The P/C remained compressed and prevented any of the flaps from opening. With some effort, I managed to pull on he P/C to get it to release.
This was in part because the rigger before me had somehow managed to capture a great deal of canopy material in the closing loops of the pop top.

Next peice of black death was that the rigger before me had pulled all the P/C material down towards the base of the spring and while compressing the spring, shoved all the P/C material up the bottom of the spring and into the coils. Hence the other reasons why the P/C could not launch and most likley would have prevented the P/C from inflating. The only reason I can think of why any one would do that is to hide the P/C material. Clearly there are better ways of doing that
The last piece of black death was that some one had for some reason removed he guide ring from one of the reserve risers and replaced it with a weak welded (guide rings must be forged) replacement. If the welded ring had beedn placed under a high load such as opening shock, it undoubtly would have failed resulting in loss of that brake line, possibly causing the slider to hang up, and resulting in the jumper spining in.
Needless to say, the jumper was not pleased to hear about all these things wrong with his rig.
I contcted the rigger who made these mistakes and I came to find that he is one of the big muckety mucks in his country and actually sits (or did back then) as the head on that countrys rigging body.
Sadly when I mentioned these mistakes to the rigger who made them, He was, (oh how shall I say this), A PRICK and he accepted no responsibilty for his mistakes.

No I will not tell you his name so don't bother asking but I will say that he lives and works on a cold rainy island some where in the north atlantic.

[KevinMcGuire 0]

The purpose to this thread is for shock value.

[mjosparky 3]

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I remember a picture in Skydiving magazine in 1996 or 1997 showing a reserve that was opened on the ground for a repack and was found with a molar strap wrapped around it. The jumper had made over 100 jumps with such a setup, having basically no reserve, and obviously not knowing about it

Did you see the article or are you repeating what someone told you? If you saw the article, what issue? I am not saying it couldn't happen, but I think it is unlikely someone would close a reserve with a 4 foot molar strap still in place.

I would tend to agree with RiggerRob and Hookitt, stirring the pot for shock valve.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[betzilla 56]

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Did you see the article or are you repeating what someone told you? If you saw the article, what issue? I am not saying it couldn't happen, but I think it is unlikely someone would close a reserve with a 4 foot molar strap still in place.

Nope, it's true. I saw the article too (but it was in 98 or after, I think -- after I started jumping). The rigger in question had previously jumped at a DZ I used to jump at (I never met him), so it struck close to home for me. Now that I do reserves, I actually say "molar strap out" when I remove it, just for my own peace of mind.

[skydiverek 60]

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Did you see the article or are you repeating what someone told you? If you saw the article, what issue? I am not saying it couldn't happen, but I think it is unlikely someone would close a reserve with a 4 foot molar strap still in place.

I saw that article. It was not even an article, but a picture of the reserve and 5-10 lines of commentary text below it. The picture was in the upper portion of the right-hand-side page - I have a good "photographic" memory
Of course there is shock value to this thread, but there is more important reason why I posted it. Some jumpres are convinced that a good reserve is a "sure" thing, that it cannot malfunction and will always work. Some of them do intentional cutaways, without a 3rd parachute, when their reserve is due for a repack. I think this is nuts, because serious rigging errors happen on reserves too. This thread should help them understand that the reserve is only to be used when a situation requires it, since it is NOT a sure thing. 99.99%, but not 100%.

[KevinMcGuire 0]

I assure you that mine is as close to %100 as it gets. You might say that I have a vested intrest in my reserve working properly

[skydiverek 60]

Here is an addition to my last post saying that reserves can malfunction (so you should always have a 2nd reserve when you do an intentional cutaway).

From Hooknswoop:

"I know people that cutaway and deploy their reserves at re-pack time. NOT RECOMMENDED for a number of reasons. A friend of mine watched someone go in with a reserve bag lock after cutting away a perfectly good canopy (he was kown for doing this)."
Source: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=367542#367542

[FrogNog 1]

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Here is an addition to my last post saying that reserves can malfunction (so you should always have a 2nd reserve when you do an intentional cutaway).

From Hooknswoop:

"I know people that cutaway and deploy their reserves at re-pack time. NOT RECOMMENDED for a number of reasons. A friend of mine watched someone go in with a reserve bag lock after cutting away a perfectly good canopy (he was known for doing this)."
Source: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=367542#367542

To be more specific about that quote, it's about cutting away and deploying their reserves in the air at re-pack time.

Cutting away and deploying the reserve on the ground isn't as dangerous, and I would think it's recommended for various benefits.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[jlmiracle 7]

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I remember a picture in Skydiving magazine in 1996 or 1997 showing a reserve that was opened on the ground for a repack and was found with a molar strap wrapped around it. The jumper had made over 100 jumps with such a setup, having basically no reserve, and obviously not knowing about it

Did you see the article or are you repeating what someone told you? If you saw the article, what issue? I am not saying it couldn't happen, but I think it is unlikely someone would close a reserve with a 4 foot molar strap still in place.

I would tend to agree with RiggerRob and Hookitt, stirring the pot for shock valve.
Sparky

He is not making it up it was published in Skydiving Magazine. I thought Rigger Bill in Z-hill (back in 1998?) was the rigger that FOUND it not packed it.

I personally know the person that this happened to.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[masterrig 1]

That's one reason, I don't use a molar-strap. One less thing to have to use.

Chuck

[diablopilot 2]

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That's one reason, I don't use a molar-strap. One less thing to have to use.

BINGO!

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[riggerrob 561]

That's why I use my molar strap to anchor my clamps to a table leg, why I wrap my molar strap around the center cell and why I use my molar strap to apply tension while closing the container.

The more times you use a tool during a pack job, the less likely you are to forget it and the easier it is to count your tools at the end of the job.

[masterrig 1]

I taught myself, a method of packing without using a molar strap or clamps. It was kinda 'accidental'. My molar strap was out of reach, so, being between a rock and a hard place, I got it done without it and have done it that way ever since. I definately agree with you about using a tool all the time and not losing track of it.

Chuck

[skycat 0]

I've seen 2 where there was a good chance it could have been fatal. Do a search for posts from Hooknswoop, I know he posted at least one of the incedents on here.

Fly it like you stole it!

[Lindsey 0]

I know the person whose rig this was, and it DID happen. Maybe it was posted for shock value, but it's also important to be aware of problems that can and do occur....

Peace~
Lindsey

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I remember a picture in Skydiving magazine in 1996 or 1997 showing a reserve that was opened on the ground for a repack and was found with a molar strap wrapped around it. The jumper had made over 100 jumps with such a setup, having basically no reserve, and obviously not knowing about it

Did you see the article or are you repeating what someone told you? If you saw the article, what issue? I am not saying it couldn't happen, but I think it is unlikely someone would close a reserve with a 4 foot molar strap still in place.

I would tend to agree with RiggerRob and Hookitt, stirring the pot for shock valve.
Sparky

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[sunshine 2]

I've tried a few times to pack without a molar strap and just end up with a big mess. I really don't know how you guys do it. I need it to keep the canopy in a nice neat little package. I do always wrap the molar strap around my waste like a belt when i'm done. Thats my way of making sure i removed it. Though at this point i really don't know how someone could leave one in.

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[masterrig 1]

For me, packing without a molar strap, was learned very early on. To be honest, I never 'really' learned to use one. When I was working on my Senior cert., molar straps were just coming into use. My instructor and I each made one but, just couldn't quite get the hang of it. It's just a matter of controlling the material with your hands and knees and knowing how much pressure to apply with your knees. However you do it, as long as it is within the guidelines of manufacturer's instructions. As for leaving one on a packed reserve, is beyond me. Any way, a rigger has of keeping an account of their tools is good. Whatever works. personally, I use a check list. All the best to you.

Chuck

[NoShitThereIWas 0]

I have never touched a molar strap and both riggers I apprenticed under do not use them to pack reserves for the reasons mentioned above. I guess when you aren't given the opportunity to use one you just adapt and find other ways of accomplishing your packing mission.

To answer Sunshine, it really isn't all that hard at all the way I learned. You just need to use your legs and knees a lot to keep the pack job from turning into a big mess. It was challenging at first to learn but now I don't have any problems with it at all since I am just used to it.

Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires."

Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

[masterrig 1]

Exactamundo! It's all in the way we are taught. We are all creatures of habit and we form them... good or bad. I feel, as riggers, we all strive to develop good habits. There's nothing wrong with using a molar strap or not using one. Keeping track of it is the habit we need to establish.

Chuck

[KevinMcGuire 0]

Either everyone is being tight lipped about the scarry things they have found in reserves or none of you have actually found any scarry things. Which is it???
If your being tight lipped why? What does shock value have to do with any thing? Shocking can be very educational.
If you have come across something and you have decided not to talk about it because it' nothing more than "shock value" then that's BS.
What about the new rigger who reads this post and learns something that he or she might other wise have missed.
What if you have info that could prevent a fatality? If you decide not to talk about something you have found then IMO that is trully shocking