Got "talked to" this weekend

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

His parachute came out of the sky like a rock...


because it was made of rock!

Packed it with a hammer!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[popsjumper 2]

So, now we find out that it was a 270 and you didn't leave the guy room on the right because you flew across the field instead of flying parallel to landing direction.

Your OP omitted the important info and your diagram was not what you actually flew.

Yep, you fucked up alright.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[millertime24 8]

Quote

So, now we find out that it was a 270 and you didn't leave the guy room on the right because you flew across the field instead of flying parallel to landing direction.

Your OP omitted the important info and your diagram was not what you actually flew.

Yep, you fucked up alright.

Sorry, That was the wrong video.

Muff #5048

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

And thats another thing, when people approach me with a "this was a bad idea and heres why, but heres how you can do what you want in a safer manner" I tend to listen and appreciate the advice given more.

I'm absolutely certain this is a much better approach than 20 different jumpers walking up to the jumper over the day telling him that he's a dumbass. Unfortunately, I see that more than the other.

I'm a big fan of the 'well meaning' crowd of up jumpers letting one person know - hopefully someone the jumper considers a mentor. And then that ONE person counsels the jumper on the mistake and how to improve. Mass correction tends to shut down a newbie more than help.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

I'm a big fan of the 'well meaning' crowd of up jumpers letting one person know - hopefully someone the jumper considers a mentor. And then that ONE person counsels the jumper on the mistake and how to improve. Mass correction tends to shut down a newbie more than help.

For a young jumper I could go along with that. For the experienced...nah. I like the dislocated reserve handle idea...especially for the skygods.

Every DZ needs a dedicated 300-pound gorilla for a Safety Officer.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Throttlebender 0]

I've heard people talk about doing that before. I wonder if it actually happens.
He'd have to be a 300lb gorilla because pulling my reserve handle would be a fast way to find himself looking up from the floor wondering what happened

Life expands or contracts in proportion to one's courage. ~Anais Nin

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

He'd have to be a 300lb gorilla because pulling my reserve handle would be a fast way to find himself looking up from the floor wondering what happened

*shaking head*

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Throttlebender 0]

Why shakin your head?

You don't think messing with someone else's equipment and costing them money to satisfy your sense of clever entitlement deserves a pop in the chops?

How strange.....unless you were just joking of course.

And before you go on about safety, I'm ALL for it. But people just don't need to start thinking it's ok to fuck around with anyone else's gear.

Life expands or contracts in proportion to one's courage. ~Anais Nin

[popsjumper 2]

The *shaking head* was all about the desire to settle interpersonal conflict by resorting to fisticuffs.

It's quite common these days. Hence the need for the 300-pound gorilla.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[NovaTTT 1]

Quote

The *shaking head* was all about the desire to settle interpersonal conflict by resorting to fisticuffs.

I'd just like to point out that pulling someone else's reserve handle *is* resorting to fisticuffs physical confrontation to settle an interpersonal conflict.

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[Bolas 5]

Quote

My S&TA even told me different locations and approaches to make such a maneuver in a safer manner while he was talking to me. And thats another thing, when people approach me with a "this was a bad idea and heres why, but heres how you can do what you want in a safer manner" I tend to listen and appreciate the advice given more.

That's what an S&TA is supposed to do.
Far more effective than simply calling someone dangerous and pulling their reserve handle for a first offense.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

Far more effective than simply calling someone dangerous and pulling their reserve handle for a first offense.

For experienced people doing stupid stuff, pulling the handle is highly effective. AND it sends a message to all others at the same time. Somewhere I missed the part that you inserted about "calling someone dangerous".

Talking it through can be effective too...IF the guy is listening.

Yeah, so first-offense talking could work in many cases. Repeated offenses call for more drastic action. Or, do you want to sweet-talk everyone until they are dead and not listening anymore?

YMMV.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Throttlebender 0]

Or you just have the DZO or S&TA ground them.

No touchy touchy the handles

Life expands or contracts in proportion to one's courage. ~Anais Nin

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

Or you just have the DZO or S&TA ground them.

No touchy touchy the handles

I'm happier with this. Why punish the rigger?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[DocPop 1]

Quote

Quote

Or you just have the DZO or S&TA ground them.

No touchy touchy the handles

I'm happier with this. Why punish the rigger?

Surely popping reserves willy-nilly is giving the rigger work?

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[Bolas 5]

Quote

Or you just have the DZO or S&TA ground them.

No touchy touchy the handles

I agree. However if one insists on pulling a handle on a rig, pull the cutaway and then don't give it back until the grounding is over or ship it to where they live if the grounding is permanent.

This gives them the option of unpacking and rehooking up their main or paying someone to do it versus making them pay to get their reserve repacked.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

Or you just have the DZO or S&TA ground them.

Always a good idea.

Do YOU have the power to get YOUR DZO to ground them? How many groundings do you want before getting thrown off the DZ?

It's just a matter of getting the DZO to do it.
The S&TA operates under the DZO so the DZO has final say on groundings and bannings.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Throttlebender 0]

Quote

Quote

Or you just have the DZO or S&TA ground them.

Always a good idea.

Do YOU have the power to get YOUR DZO to ground them? How many groundings do you want before getting thrown off the DZ?

It's just a matter of getting the DZO to do it.
The S&TA operates under the DZO so the DZO has final say on groundings and bannings.

What's your point exactly? Are you saying that vandalizing someone's personal property is best because it's possibly easier than speaking to your DZO? Seems like weak sauce to me.

To answer your question though, I'd have zero problem speaking with our DZO regarding someone that was being dangerous to themselves or others.

Life expands or contracts in proportion to one's courage. ~Anais Nin

[BrianM 1]

Quote

I agree. However if one insists on pulling a handle on a rig, pull the cutaway and then don't give it back until the grounding is over

That would be theft. Are you willing to risk having the cops show up at your door?

Messing with someone's gear is not the answer. Deal with it properly. Start by talking to the person about the issue - you know, like mature adults do. Resort to the S&TA and/or DZO if necessary.

"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg

[Throttlebender 0]

Quote

Quote

I agree. However if one insists on pulling a handle on a rig, pull the cutaway and then don't give it back until the grounding is over

That would be theft. Are you willing to risk having the cops show up at your door?

Messing with someone's gear is not the answer. Deal with it properly. Start by talking to the person about the issue - you know, like mature adults do. Resort to the S&TA and/or DZO if necessary.

+1 That's the answer right there.

Life expands or contracts in proportion to one's courage. ~Anais Nin

[millertime24 8]

Wow. Don't really know how we devolved to a legal discussion. All I was trying to point out is that a good "talk" with a "why" and a "this is how you can do this stuff safely" was all it took for me.

Another thing to consider... I primarily fly wingsuits at my DZ with ONE other person. That pretty much means we have NOBODY to worry about come landing time (except each other and I always usually land first as I like to film his openings). This has got me complacent in regards to canopy flight and traffic patterns. Even as an experienced jumper, all it took for me to "cut it out" was a civil discussion with the S&TA.

All that other shit (pulling reserves/cutaways) is moot conjecture IMO.

Be safe,
-Mike

Muff #5048

[Throttlebender 0]

Quote

Wow. Don't really know how we devolved to a legal discussion. All I was trying to point out is that a good "talk" with a "why" and a "this is how you can do this stuff safely" was all it took for me.

Another thing to consider... I primarily fly wingsuits at my DZ with ONE other person. That pretty much means we have NOBODY to worry about come landing time (except each other and I always usually land first as I like to film his openings). This has got me complacent in regards to canopy flight and traffic patterns. Even as an experienced jumper, all it took for me to "cut it out" was a civil discussion with the S&TA.

All that other shit (pulling reserves/cutaways) is moot conjecture IMO.

Be safe,
-Mike

Oh we understand Mike, and good on ya for listening and sharing the experience.
However, this IS dz.com where no topic is safe. It's mandatory that all originally meaningful discussions get sidelined. It's all these Type A personalitiesin one arena

Life expands or contracts in proportion to one's courage. ~Anais Nin

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

What's your point exactly? Are you saying that vandalizing someone's personal property is best because it's possibly easier than speaking to your DZO? Seems like weak sauce to me.

Evidently, you are having trouble understanding a simple statement and must interject stupidity by inserting off-the-wall comments that have nothing to do with the statement at all.

Quote

To answer your question though, I'd have zero problem speaking with our DZO regarding someone that was being dangerous to themselves or others.

Thanks for the non-answer.
Read the question again....do try to focus on what it's asking, eh?

For your benefit, I'll repeat the two questions:
1. Do YOU have the power to get YOUR DZO to ground them?
2. How many groundings do you want before getting (them) thrown off the DZ?

Well, while I'm having to teach, I'll go back over the "point" for you:
"It's just a matter of getting the DZO to do it.
The S&TA operates under the DZO so the DZO has final say on groundings and bannings."

As an aside:
You might want to avoid the use of "we". You must know that you speak for nobody but yourself, right?
But I do understand why you did it.



For your edumacation how about this bit of clarification:
If I were the DZO...
Young jumper - talk and teach in whatever manner works best for his emotional maturity. Clarify consequences of repeated behavior:
a) grounding short term
b) grounding long term
c) reserve repack
d) banned

Experienced jumper - talk and remind. Clarify consequences of repeated behavior:
a) grounding
b) reserve repack
c) banned

If one had a problem with this and wanted to start swinging fists on part B, then I would have no problem going straight to C to get the emotionally stunted off and away from the rest of us.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

...This has got me complacent in regards to canopy flight and traffic patterns. Even as an experienced jumper, all it took for me to "cut it out" was a civil discussion with the S&TA.

Which was the whole "fessing up" idea of the OP.
Good stuff.

So, the video you linked...was that not video of your canopy flight?

Also...
With all the recent incidents involving canopy flight, getting "complacent in regards to canopy flight and traffic patterns" is a very big issue nowadays.
It's disheartening to see experienced people doing these things....especially in light of recent events.

Experienced people are expected to know these things and letting oneself get bitten by the complacency bug is much, much worse IMHO than a youngster not knowing any better. Hence the approval for more drastic action and consequences in those cases...including losing a reserve pack.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[BrianM 1]

Quote

If I were the DZO...

c) reserve repack

b) reserve repack

I hope you wouldn't complain if that jumper decided to retaliate by messing with your student gear/rental gear/tandem gear/jump plane in order to cause you the same amount of inconvenience and expense as you caused him. After all, you are the one who decided that messing with other people's property was a good way to solve a problem.

Sorry, but what you are advocating is completely inappropriate, both ethically and legally.

"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg