Self assisted PCA

[TomAiello 25]

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why even say it that way.just tell a newby to use the proper materials,and technique.just tell them the right thing to do first. let them figure out there own bad habits later.

In general I agree with you.

But in this case, I saw someone who was potentially going to do something fairly dangerous (tape off with masking tape), where a very simple piece of advice (grab the other roll of tape) could lead to a dramatically different outcome.

I am not saying that tape is a good way to static line. Nor am I saying that I'd recommend it. But I wouldn't recommend (for example), freefalling a 140' cliff, either. But if I saw someone on a 140' exit with a 32" PC, I'd still recommend that they upsize the PC.

I don't think it's as cut and dried as you are making it out. Remember that 2 other posters had already suggested tape, and the original poster had already expressed the misconception that masking tape was the tape to use. In this case, you can either stand by and say "if you're not using break cord, I'm not helping," or you can say something like "dude, if you're gonna use tape, at least use electrical tape." Why not try to help them avoid injury?

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[freakboy066 0]

I understand.Thanks for clarifying.

http://freakboy066.tripod.com/

[cornishe 0]

There's usually more than just one right and one wrong way of accomplishing something.



_

Abbie Mashaal
Skydive Idaho
Snake River Skydiving
TandemBASE

[Rauk 0]

Abbie, I think you may have said it all. I am sure a lot of the things I have done were "wrong"...

[leroydb 0]

isn't it, there is more than one way to skin a "cornishe"

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[freakboy066 0]

you are correct,but there is also the right materials for the job,and the wrong materials for the job.

http://freakboy066.tripod.com/

[cornishe 0]

I just recieved this message:
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SUBJECT: Enough is enough.
That's enough sensical insight from you on the BASE board. Get back to non-sensical shit.
------------------------------------

Apparently I almost lost my status as court jester. So here goes...

Rauk:

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Abbie, I think you may have said it all. I am sure a lot of the things I have done were "wrong"...

Adam, almost everything you've done was "wrong". Like that time you raped Peter. I mean seriously, why would you use a condom... you think he was going to get pregnant???

leroydb:

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isn't it, there is more than one way to skin a "cornishe"

Adam's horny and I just gave him your address.

freakboy066:

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you are correct

Yes I am.

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,but there is also the right materials for the job,and the wrong materials for the job.

This is completely subjective even when many ideas have become accepted by the majority. You could eas... wait... crap! There I go ruining my reputation again.


-

Abbie Mashaal
Skydive Idaho
Snake River Skydiving
TandemBASE

[JaapSuter 0]

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That's enough sensical insight from you on the BASE board.

It's not just on the BASE board! It's in real life too! I have it from a trustworthy source that Abbie walked down from a jump yesterday because the winds were too high!

What's wrong Abbie? Are you getting wise? What is the world coming too...

[cornishe 0]

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..walked down from a jump yesterday because the winds were too high!

What's wrong Abbie? Are you getting wise? What is the world coming too...

I'm was such a pussy. I can't explain it either. Hopefully I don't find myself smoking a dick anytime soon.


-

Abbie Mashaal
Skydive Idaho
Snake River Skydiving
TandemBASE

[grundleson 0]

But in this case, I saw someone who was potentially going to do something fairly dangerous (tape off with masking tape), where a very simple piece of advice (grab the other roll of tape) could lead to a dramatically different outcome.

back to tom.
i was (and once again) in my sarcastic typing tone made a comment about masking tape.
i know electrical tape is the "right tape" to use, and trust me, you wont find me at an exit point taping my gear to the handrail without someone there who has done it first.

i dont want any injuries, and there is no way i would ACTUALLY tape up with masking tape.

SO.

back to static line jumps.
i like dexters little tool that he has created.

OH and i also agree that online tutorials on the board arent the way to fully explain someones ideas on how to technically pull off certain jumps. its just a reference on ideas and previous attemps at doing extreme stunts as you would.

i'm rambling, i gotta stop.
-e

Dont die!

[JaapSuter 0]

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I also agree that online tutorials on the board aren't the way to fully explain someone's ideas on how to technically pull off certain jumps. It's just a reference on ideas and previous attempts at doing extreme stunts as you would.

It's also a great encouragement for the mentally challenged to buy a rig on Ebay and huck themselves from the wrong bridge. Based on a true story.

[lifewithoutanet 0]

Thank you, Abbie. That's more like it.
As for walking off, good call. Sucks that the winds didn't cooperate, but you needed the exercise anyway.
-C.

[DexterBase 0]

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I also agree that online tutorials on the board aren't the way to fully explain someone's ideas on how to technically pull off certain jumps. It's just a reference on ideas and previous attempts at doing extreme stunts as you would.

I think when there's a flood of bad advice being posted by people who are guessing at what works, someone who know the right way needs to step in and lay out a method that works.

1. Take a person who's never done a BASE jump.

2. Have that persone try some of the methods described in this thread.

There will be a mixed batch of outcomes from that scenario. If that person follows the instructions I posted, then they will probably survive.

Does anyone feel what I posted is more dangerous than any of the other methods presented in this thread?

[GaryP 0]

Information is the underlying stand in Tom's post. Palliative information at that - information that assists the situation at hand as it is needed, and that people find useful. It's unrealistic to expect people to apply only textbook BASEjumping.

Jumpers will substitute whenever they have to. It's better to have people thinking for themselves "why" a particular substitute works or doesn't work rather than just having ppl parrot one particular doctrine given to them.

4 wraps of electrical tape through the eye of the bridle (in moderate to warm climates) works a treat for me. Place 2 wraps around the "anchor" first before commencing the 4 wraps.

Cya

g.

"Altitude is birthright to any individual who seeks it"

.

[JaapSuter 0]

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Does anyone feel what I posted is more dangerous than any of the other methods presented in this thread?

Certainly not me, and I apologize if my comments made it seem that way. However, I also think that simply stating the following would have sufficed:

"Using standard 80 pound breakcord is what most experienced base jumpers recommend. Find another jumper to demonstrate the technique to you. It's not hard once you know how to do it, but a simple rigging error can easily lead to a total or a hangup."

I mean, if we extend your line of reasoning, what is stopping us from posting complete rigging, packing and jumping manuals? Admittedly the information is already out there, scattered over manufacturer's manuals and forums, but it's quite different from a Base For Dummies book.

It's a grey area. The information on this forum is great. But there should be an entry-level barrier that can only be obtained through real life experience from FJCs or more traditional mentoring.

In my very fragile opinion, somebody that is going to take up base jumping ought to have heard the term static-line. Just as somebody who shows up for a hand-held jump at the Perrine ought to know that routing your bridle over your shoulder (tuck or velcro) is a good idea. If that sounds unrelated, PM me.

I can't believe that myself, of all people, is writing this. Arg...

Loved your post Chad!

[GaryP 0]

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I think when there's a flood of bad advice being posted by people who are guessing at what works, someone who know the right way needs to step in and lay out a method that works.

When I just said it's best for ppl to be thinking for themselves I didn't take the newbie factor into account - of course they need it spelled out for them the right way the first time. They need to know what the benchmark is so that they are aware of what they are digressing from when making mod's or substituting.

Nice instructions Chad. - Thx.

g.

"Altitude is birthright to any individual who seeks it"

.

[TomAiello 25]

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The information on this forum is great. But there should be an entry-level barrier that can only be obtained through real life experience from FJCs or more traditional mentoring.

Maybe we ought to start a separate thread on that.

Personally, my take is that technical knowledge ought to be disseminated as widely as possible. The more the knowledge is written down, shared, talked about, posted on the internet, or whatever, the more chance that people will run into it, and that it will not be lost.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[JaapSuter 0]

I'll try to continue this discussion, because I think it's interesting. Feel free to split the thread.

From your article on getting into base:

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I would never advise someone to get into [base] (and I have found it to be the most rewarding experience of my life).

Do you still hold this opinion?

Would you be in favour of an online database of technical base information? What if the information in this manual is enough for any person to buy a rig on Ebay and do a jump? What is stopping them from skipping the FJC, skipping the locals, and hurting themselves on a local object?

The general public still believes that a total malfunction is the biggest risk in base. As soon as people realize the real risk is object strike, they'll think it's something they can control to a degree. Then the cat will be out of the bag.

Many people trust their own skill more than properly used and maintained gear. Case in point; backcountry skiing. Surely I'm a good enough skieer to avoid that avalanche...

I'm all for disseminating knowledge as widespread as possible, but I also think that lowering the barrier into base will hurt the sport in the long run.

[crwper 7]

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Would you be in favour of an online database of technical base information? What if the information in this manual is enough for any person to buy a rig on Ebay and do a jump? What is stopping them from skipping the FJC, skipping the locals, and hurting themselves on a local object?

Hiding information sounds too much like "security by obscurity" to me. These methods are not sustainable. A better alternative, I think, is to inform people as completely as possible. The real danger here is that someone might get hold of technical information but not be aware of the risks involved. Our goal should be not to hide the technical information, but to make information about the risks at least as easy to find as the technical stuff.

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The general public still believes that a total malfunction is the biggest risk in base. As soon as people realize the real risk is object strike, they'll think it's something they can control to a degree. Then the cat will be out of the bag.

I think the general public isn't BASE jumping, not out of fear for some hypothetical scenario, but because when they even stand near the edge of a big drop, they are pissing themselves. For most people, this is a strong cue to back away from the edge.

Yeah, there will be a few people who get past that and make a jump without training. But we absolutely cannot take responsibility for protecting people from themselves. There are too many of "them" and too few of "us".

Michael

[JaapSuter 0]

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I think the general public isn't BASE jumping, not out of fear for some hypothetical scenario, but because when they even stand near the edge of a big drop, they are pissing themselves. For most people, this is a strong cue to back away from the edge.

I disagree. I think western civilization has become bored enough to overcome its fear of heights. Just look at the success of bungee jumping and more recently the number of people deathcamped of the Potato into the water. This works because they realize a PCA jump reduces the chance of a total significantly.

Not getting a parachute out is what scares people. We tell them that's not their biggest problem and hell will break lose.

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Yeah, there will be a few people who get past that and make a jump without training. But we absolutely cannot take responsibility for protecting people from themselves.

Don't get me wrong. I don't give a rat's ass about the person who's going to kill himself without any training whatsoever. I strongly believe in Darwinism.

However, I do care about objects that other people have worked hard for, as well as the image of our sport. The public won't make the distinction between an experienced jumper dying and a beginner killing himself. Both have equally disastrous concequences for the general perception towards our sport.

Edited to add: While I may not shed any tears over anybody who kills himself without training for it, that doesn't mean I won't try to help him if he asks for my advice.

[NickDG 23]

>>The general public still believes that a total malfunction is the biggest risk in base.<<

The problem with manuals and such, is we are still very much guessing. We are a few generations away from getting BASE completely right. If we ever do. The accumulation of BASE jumping knowledge doesn't stop when anyone in particular starts jumping. We have way more ahead of us, then behind. The Ying supports the Yang in this sport. It's the reason I can have a fellow on my boat who's been BASE jumping for a year and he says something that makes me think, man, he's absolutely right, and I never even considered it that way.

No, BASE jumping is the kind of thing that's propelled ahead by those who say, "who says I can't" rather than those who say "I shouldn't." There's a terrible price to be paid for that kind of freedom, but it makes us who we are . . . I don't think we will ever be able to distill this thing we do into a handbook, and if we do, it won't be the thing that attracted us in the first place . . .

NickD BASE 194