Problems standing it up

[John_Scher 0]

Surely that depends on how much slack there is already in the braklines, before you move the toggles?

Gus,
From the few canopies that I have jumped for the specific purpose of changing the toggle setting from the manufacturers "as shipped" setting, I have noted that beyond two or more inches starts to deflect the tail. I have just recently jumped a microlight for the purpose of assessing the toggle setting on my new BJ280 and this is exactly what I found. I am however, really not at all knowledgeable on this subject so...

[TomAiello 25]

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From the few canopies that I have jumped for the specific purpose of changing the toggle setting from the manufacturers "as shipped" setting, I have noted that beyond two or more inches starts to deflect the tail.

It depends on the specific canopy and manufacturer. It also depends on the jumper.

Short, fat guys like me are going to need to push the toggles up more and/or use a canopy with 5 control lines. In some cases, pushing the toggles up will cause a tail deflection (i.e. you'll never be able to get the canopy into full flight, even with your arms pushed up as far as they can reach--beyond the toggle placement on the risers). This is generally quite rare, though, since it implies very short arms.

John, are you doing your testing in a slider down (i.e. no guide rings) configuration?

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 25]

Also, chadkal, do you have 4 or 5 control lines on that Troll?

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[John_Scher 0]

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From the few canopies that I have jumped for the specific purpose of changing the toggle setting from the manufacturers "as shipped" setting, I have noted that beyond two or more inches starts to deflect the tail.

It depends on the specific canopy and manufacturer. It also depends on the jumper.

Short, fat guys like me are going to need to push the toggles up more and/or use a canopy with 5 control lines. In some cases, pushing the toggles up will cause a tail deflection (i.e. you'll never be able to get the canopy into full flight, even with your arms pushed up as far as they can reach--beyond the toggle placement on the risers). This is generally quite rare, though, since it implies very short arms.

John, are you doing your testing in a slider down (i.e. no guide rings) configuration?

Tom,

I used a slider up configuration for the microlight test jump and noted that if I pulled the toggles down more than two to three inches the tail would start to deflect. The toggles were in the "as shipped" position. To my limited experience, this is normal and to be expected. I have since raised the toggle position by two inches as I wasn't getting deep enough into the control stroke when slider off. You and I discussed this elsewhere.

In this current thread I noted that no one was discussing the fact that raising the toggles more than two or so inches from the "as shipped" mark will impact upon the ability of the canopy to fly at full drive in a slider up configuration as the toggles will now hit the guide rings sooner than before. This I believe is generally true however you had mentioned some time ago in a long lost thread that you seldom find yourself flying in full drive but more often fly with some degree of brakes, therefore even if the canopy is inhibited it possibly doesn't matter to some folks. Needless to say on a windy day or when in need of gaining maximum distance to the LZ, full drive is preferable.

[chadkal 0]

Tom,

I have 5 control lines and have been jumping only slider down. All jumps here are between 200 and 400 ft.

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I am a greek midget

[K763 0]

Hi there...

First of all I commend you on making this statement...it's tough to be the guy admitting "I'm not standing up my landings" and I think you are a Real Man...not afraid to expose a perceived shortcoming in order to learn something new.

My first suggestion would be to get the valves installed on the Vtec. These valves seal off the vents when the canopy is pressurized and allows you to get better glide and way better flares.

The 5th upper control line can also add a lot of power to your flare.

Personally, I'm the butt-slide queen. I could blame this habit on having broken my right leg pretty severely, and that would be marginally true, but actually I've always done the butt-slide when in doubt about my landing. I realize this is very dangerous for the tailbone and lower back, so I'm also re-training myself to either stand it up, or PLF. I was also pleased to notice that while I was sliding in under my 293, I have been able to stand up every landing on my 266. The higher wing loading does add to flare performance, just like they teach you in skydiving....doh!

And of course, one obvious question is that after you've flown yourself to target, do you still have time to return to full flight before flaring? The only stupid question is the one you don't ask.

Peace,
K

[JaapSuter 0]

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...I've always done the butt-slide when in doubt about my landing. I realize this is very dangerous for the tailbone and lower back, so I'm also re-training myself to either stand it up, or PLF.

After my helmet, I consider my Dainese Hip, Ass and Tailbone Protector my best investment in protection. I imagine other brands sell similar shorts.

Mine is a left over from my snowboarding days, but it works great for base too. You don't notice you're wearing them at all. I prefer them over the longer protection pants because now I can add separate shin and knee protection on demand.

Like you say, a PLF is often safer than a buttslide. Nonetheless, these shorts have saved my ass on several occasions. I realize I'm opening myself up for a lot of one-liners here, so the Splatula team has been warned.

Cornische, here's your model number: 4879609

Edited for spelling.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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I've done my best to hide it for years, but I'm finally ready to admit it... I have problems standing it up.

I fly a Fox 245 VTec (no valves) loaded at very nearly 0.7:1. My landing areas tend to be at 3,000-4,000 feet MSL in dry air. I consider myself a good 7-cell canopy pilot -- I've been jumping this setup for better than 80 jumps (over four years), and competed in CRW for a couple of years before I started into BASE.

Lightly loaded seven cells flare a _lot_ differently than similar canopies (PD reserves and lightnings) at typical skydiving loadings. When I'm not current on my Fox 245 and Dagger 244 (current loading .67, has been as high as .79) I get harder landings than I do under a less familiar seven cells at much higher loadings (My PD143R with one jump in the last few years or a borrowed Lightning 143).

Flaring higher and faster seems to work. Deep brake approaches without returning to full flight don't appreciably change things. A few weekends at 4-5 jumps a day out of a plane really helped.

[JohnnyUtah 0]

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Needless to say on a windy day or when in need of gaining maximum distance to the LZ, full drive is preferable.

John (Kenya),

Good Point.

There are definitely those times when its necessary to really work for distance with a head wind in order to make it to a landing area. Having the ability to reach full flight is a good thing. Reducing drag from your body helps too.

Full flight (or more) can also be very desirable at flare time.
In a no-wind or down-wind situation, I prefer as dynamic a flare as I can get.

Have Fun, Don't Die!
Johnny Utah
My Website
email:[email protected]