Broken Back in Moab!

[Sean621 0]

is that all?

so in theory someone with 150 skydives and 30-40 jumps from the potato bridge is experienced enough to jump there?

i know this is an extreme case of what could be but given the jump number minimums for a manufacturers course its possible.....what a fookin scary thought!!

http://www.extreme-on-demand.com

[lifewithoutanet 0]

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is that all?

so in theory someone with 150 skydives and 30-40 jumps from the potato bridge is experienced enough to jump there?

i know this is an extreme case of what could be but given the jump number minimums for a manufacturers course its possible.....what a fookin scary thought!!

I'm not going to address the number of skydives, but when it comes to BASE experience, I think a 30-40 jumps seems about right as a minimum...but what's more important is what you've done with those 30-40 BASE jumps.

A while back, I cruised through Moab with the intention of meeting up with some friends and getting my E. But the weekend before, I was in Twin. I mentioned Moab and was asked, "Are you ready for that?" It wasn't a negative statement. It wasn't a "you're getting way ahead of yourself" comment (at least I didn't take it that way). And thus began my object avoidance drills. What I found from the floater exits was that my reaction time was great, but my deep brake settings weren't deep enough. I was opening and flying toward the imaginary object way too fast. I earned the nickname "Airstrike" that weekend. Thankfully it didn't stick.

The following week, before I left for Moab, I stopped by Apex Perris and Todd added an additional DBS for me, past the factory setting. I didn't get a chance to test it in Moab, which is good, because the reality was I didn't really want to test it there. The weather was turning to shit and we pushed on to Colorado, instead. I didn't get to test it in CO, either--but I did earn my Chicken A.

I made it back up to Twin again and did some more floaters with the factory DBS and the new DBS. What I found was that the new DBS would keep me alive. No airstrikes on those. I proved this on a recent trip to a local freestander, off which I had myself a nice little 180. Once I caught up with the canopy, I continued through the turn and kept it going just far enough to get away from it. My feet swung within 3 or 4 feet of the object in this turn. I then prepared to land my rears before even realizing that I had plenty of altitude. Once I noticed that I had plenty of air, I popped my toggles to half-flight and set it down around the backside of the object.
All that practice at the S drilled it into my head. I acted without thought, without fear. My actions were immediate and automatic. I owe that reaction to the drills I'd spent a number of jumps on and the discovery that my factory DBS were not deep enough for me.

When I started those drills, I knew what I was planning to do, but my execution wasn't flawless. My DBS needed adjustment. I turned too far away from the object. My reactions were quick, but I knew the 'strike' was coming. I didn't know what else I could do to avoid an 'airstrike' (i.e. I might have just hauled on a single rear for a turn, rather than what became a sequence of actions to avoid an object: double rears to single rear to front and rear risers on one side).

On to my point...what you do with those 30-40 jumps is more important than just having that minimum. It's a personal decision, but this works for me.

-C.

[Faber 0]

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what's more important is what you've done with those 30-40 BASE jumps.

which is what he said by 30-40 jumps off the S....

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[lifewithoutanet 0]

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which is what he said by 30-40 jumps off the S....

Yeah. I caught that... I was just post-whoring my point that 30-40 flat and stable exits don't give you the experience you need to get out of an object strike. Packing intentional line twists and a popped toggle at the S, floater exits facing the S, etc...make for better muscle memory.

On another note, congrats again on 200!

-C.

[Faber 0]

i do more tend(whith out taking words out of his mouth)to think that more different objects than that S is to be preffered

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[lifewithoutanet 0]

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i do more tend(whith out taking words out of his mouth)to think that more different objects than that S is to be preffered

Okay...I get what you're saying now. More objects is definitely preferable, overall. My point is more that the S is a good place to practice the object avoidance skills that you may need on Es and Bs, specifically Moab which was what he brought up.

-C.

[Faber 0]

i do agree whith you,but knowing what Kind of objects 621 has jumped and dont know how many different but knows its ALOT,which tends to count more in this part of the world

if i have jumped 100jumps at my local A in daylight i wont count them as much as i count the other 100 were i have opened objects gained new objects tryed difficlties in many ways other than the object you can nearly do a boogie off...

That i off the local forgiving objecrt can do nearly as i want dosnt mean i can do the same as i go to UK playing their stuff(should we call it mine as im over there so often he he)

Cheers Sean if i were whith you guys i would feel better(or atleast be drunk),sitting here drinking a "London Pride"(1 pint ofcourse),dreaming me away from here.Im not going out tonite(were the last 2 nites) i guess its more healthy that way,besides im nearly drunk...

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[freakydiver 0]

fab is my hero whilst im stuck at work

-- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

[lifewithoutanet 0]

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i do agree whith you,but knowing what Kind of objects 621 has jumped and dont know how many different but knows its ALOT,which tends to count more in this part of the world

Gotcha. I was more responding to the context of 621's post than to him directly, sharing my perspective and opinion as one of those guys w/ 30-40 jumps (40, to be exact...41 if not for the wind last night...damn).

-C.

[nicknitro71 0]

As someone mentioned the DBS could have played a role in this accident, although it is hard to tell with all the variables in this particular jump.

Anyhow, there is a lot of info about the DBS, here, on blink, and via CR.

To summarize what the DBS accomplishes is a faster inflation, less surge, and above all a canopy that will fly very mushy with little forward speed. The latter will help in case of an off heading opening by giving the pilot a bit more time to react. I personally would not jump a solid object without DBS.

Adam wrote a nice article on how to properly set the DBS:

http://www.crmojo.com/adobepdf/dbsinsert.pdf

It is critical that you skydive your canopy with the DBS few times to find out if it is set correctly. Also you should take it off a S few times before attempting an E or B with it.

A properly set DBS can be a life saver but please take the time to fully explore it. The canopy will open differently and feel much different.

In BASE knowing your gear is IMO priority number one. You can throw gainers like an Olympic gold medalist diver, fly your WS like Robi, but if you don’t fully know your gear those skills will not save your life.

There are tons of tests every one should do off a S beside jumping and landing. That’s why the best BASE jumpers keep going back to the S to sharpen their skills and try new things.

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On a different note Bernie got released from the hospital and he's flying home as you read this. He is in good spirit and his pain level is manageable.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[TomAiello 25]

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i do agree whith you,but knowing what Kind of objects 621 has jumped and dont know how many different but knows its ALOT,which tends to count more in this part of the world

Consider 2 jumpers:

Jumper 1: 200 skydives, Potato Span FJC, 20 "object avoidance drill" jumps off the potato span.

Jumper 2: 200 skydives, Potato Span FJC, 20 jumps off 20 other different objects.


In my opinion, Jumper #1 is better prepared to deal with a 180 off a solid object, because he has practiced dealing with this problem. Jumper #2 probably has much better object evaluation skills, having seen 20 more objects, but I'd feel much better about taking Jumper #1 to a low solid object.

Avoiding object strike is the way to avoid our leading cause of injury and death. Practicing avoidance ought to be your very first order of business upon completion of your first jump course--before you start jumping a bunch of different things.

Learning to create greater separation from the object (i.e. better launch skills to get further away) ought to be your next priority. Visiting more objects (especially solid ones, where there is a chance you'll need those object avoidance skills) ought to wait until you have practiced these basic survival skills.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[JaapSuter 0]

Having done a sketchy slider-down cliff on my 16th jump, I'm in no position to comment on whether or not he was capable of jumping there. However, if I understand it correctly, this injury was only the result of a poor rear-riser landing. It probably didn't help that he was in a hostile environment and putting a lot of stress on his senses. Nonetheless, this accident could have happened just the same on a skydive if one would skip proper coaching before attempting a rear-riser landing.

Practice rear-riser landings on skydives and at friendly base landing areas. On a base canopy a proper rear-riser flare can be as soft as a landing on toggles.

It's great to hear Bernie is heading home and surrounded by friends and family. Heal well and quick dude!

[BASE813 0]

yep

just ask faber about landing on rear risers with out practicing it!

[JaapSuter 0]

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Adam wrote a nice article on how to properly set the DBS: http://www.crmojo.com/adobepdf/dbsinsert.pdf

With this caveat.

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It is critical that you skydive your canopy with the DBS few times to find out if it is set correctly. Also you should take it off a S few times before attempting an E or B with it.

Word...

[Faber 0]

its all good if you like broken bones you might also need to clean the clothes from blood..

Tom i do agree whith you some how,but fist of all i guess its rear that you see a 20 jumps guy having 20 different objects...But having 4-5 in the bag whith in your 20 first is a great tool were you also learned how to be sharp on avoiding objects and might even more important different lz

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[TomAiello 25]

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But having 4-5 in the bag whith in your 20 first is a great tool were you also learned how to be sharp on avoiding objects and might even more important different lz

I think that learning to deal with various LZ's is the next thing to practice after object avoidance. Since LZ's are more often a source of injury (where object strike more often results in death), I'd put the object avoidance before the landing skills in the learning progression.

Why would you want to visit new objects to practice avoidance skills, rather than doing them at a familiar, safe span, and being able to focus entirely on learning the skills?

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[BASE813 0]

surely landing skills are something you should have before you start BASE?

[TomAiello 25]

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surely landing skills are something you should have before you start BASE?

I suppose that depends on how you define "landing skills."

You should certainly have the ability to land a BASE canopy in a variety of conditions. I've yet to see anyone starting who had really developed the ability to land on talus, for example, or in some other conditions not easily simulated at the DZ.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Faber 0]

i do belive as you jump off a new object you´l more likely jump more safe at that object.

also i think the only way you can practice your skills is to do as you desided ,meaning if you jump off object a and has desided to a way dealing whith an offheadding you should do it.

do you guys jump off the bridge in a floater exit were the pillars are just to see if you make it clear? or do you make turns in the safe envioment as you deside beforehand?
im not sure i get it.

as Mac says you should be abel to land a canopy before you BASE but its also important to know how to make the flight before,ewhich i think you learn more by,by getting new objects so you dont do the same patern all the time

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[TomAiello 25]

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do you guys jump off the bridge in a floater exit were the pillars are just to see if you make it clear? or do you make turns in the safe envioment as you deside beforehand?
im not sure i get it.

Full floaters, facing the span. If you fly under the bridge, you "airstrike". If you get turned around before flying under the bridge, you're safe.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Faber 0]

might my loss of jumping off bridges then ive only got 1 whith were 143ft which i sléd

i see what you say.. but only stuff you can use at that S,through

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[lifewithoutanet 0]

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do you guys jump off the bridge in a floater exit were the pillars are just to see if you make it clear? or do you make turns in the safe envioment as you deside beforehand?

The latter. I have video from the exit of a number of my jumps with the factory DBS and the new DBS. The intention is to observe whether or not I can float the exit facing the bridge, deploy and get the canopy turned around before flying under it. I wouldn't want to intentionally set myself up for an object strike (i.e. the pillars, as you say) and see if I can get away with it.

-C.

[Faber 0]

i see i didnt think clear,im drunk sorry guys

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[lifewithoutanet 0]

No worries. Wish I was drunk.
If you're ever in SoCal, let me know. I think you're coming to the US sometime soon, but forget. If you end up in SoCal, let me know.
-C.

[clint 1]

"Why would you want to visit new objects to practice avoidance skills, rather than doing them at a familiar, safe span, and being able to focus entirely on learning the skills?"

That would be the same as going to a different dz every time and new landing area.

One of the PD boys told me that it takes 30-40 swoops at a new dz to get the comfortable feeling.

-

Clint MacBeth
Skydive Moab 435 259 JUMP
M.O.A.B. Mother Of All Boogies Sept 19 - 23, 2012