ACE/BJ Brake line mod

[nicknitro71 0]

Adam made a change in the break lines set up on his canopies. Now the five break lines go from cell attachment point 1-5 and they are the same length. Before they went 1-4 skipped 5 and attached to 6; also line 1 and 5 (attached to 6) were longer.

Well few days ago I did the mod on my ACE.

Question is: Did anybody jump the same canopy before and after the mod and if yes what are your impressions?

Thanks

Memento Audere Semper

903

[gus 1]

That's interesting 'cos I believe Trolls have also changed (at some point since I got mine 16 months ago) to having all the cascades the same length.

Gus

OutpatientsOnline.com

[gweeks 1]

I still haven't done the mod, but I plan to. My 1 and 5 lines are actually longer than the 2-4 lines. However like yours, the 5th (closest to the center) does skip an attachment point so the brake lines control 2 1/2 cells instead of 2.

In my handful of slider-up jumps I haven't had any major heading problems or hard openings, even on terminal skydives, so part of me says 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'. On the other hand I figure the manufacturer knows better than I do the best way to set up the canopy.

There is an interesting post on the topic by Adam Filipino on the ABA board here: http://www.basejump.org/discus/messages/2/308.html?1101747637

[nicknitro71 0]

LONGER before, my bad

Memento Audere Semper

903

[hookitt 0]

I have jumps on both setups. My current Black Jack has the lines as you describe, and a wider fine mesh slider.

My impression is that it's a very positive change. For one it's easier to pack. It also pulls down just a tiny bit less of the tail during deep brake approaches making it even easier to sink in than it was before.

Heading, I've never had heading trouble with any of my canopies. My friend did on an Ace. He had the update performed and it resolved any issues it was having.

By the way, I use the fine mesh slider on every slider up jump from just a few seconds delay to terminal with positive results.

If you have the previous configuration, I definately recommend the update.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[bps 0]

Hello --

I was one of several beta testers for the new line configuration and here is what I have noted:

Slider Down

With the new configuration, I like the way the canopy responds to rear riser input when correcting off-headings (brakes set in DBS). Rear riser corrections feel more responsive and less sensitive to overcorrection, although this is no surprise since less of the tail is pulled down in the new configuration. Before the mod, rear riser corrections felt like the canopy was "falling of its line" rather than turning on a center point. The new mod eliminates this feeling and appears to make rear riser corrections more solid and much more predictable.

Statistically, my slider-down heading performance has improved with the 5th line mod.

Slider Up

I have had excellent heading performance over the entire spectrum of delays. Hard Openings, which seemed to happen from time to time with the old configuration, have also been tamed. I cannot comment on rear riser corrections because I always use toggles to correct off-headings while jumping slider-up. (for slider-down, it depends on the variables surrounding the jump)

Other Characteristics Noted (both slider up and slider down)

Turn rate while using toggles is slightly tamed.

Flare power is reduced by 5%.

Overall Results

I like the modification. For me, the positives outweigh the slight loss of turn and flare power.

These opinions are my observations based on the following number of jumps on an Ace 280:

Before the Mod: 121 jumps
After the Mod: 74 jumps

I hope this helps,

Bryan

[nicknitro71 0]

Thanks guys. I'll be trying the mod soon with slider down.

Hookitt,

Quote

By the way, I use the fine mesh slider on every slider up jump from just a few seconds delay to terminal with positive results

Ditto. I will never use a large mesh again...another reason begin the slider-tailgate I installed on the slider trailing edge.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[Faber 0]

my impression is that the line close to the center should be longer than the rest(like BR makes it on the Flik)
I got the 5th line mod on my fox 265 vtec but has removed it,it were the same lenght as the 4 other lines and i found the canopy hard to sink in as it were werry edgy about the stall point.
how ever i will keep the 5th line on my Flik(which is longer)as i think it flyes perfect(actualy talking to BR as i write this on how to mod my fox to be as siilar to the Flik(5th line mod) as posible.

im i hard to read to day? cool im drunk

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[fab777 0]

It's usually easier to speak/write foreign languages when you're drunk...

Fabien
BASE#944

[Faber 0]

Quote

It's usually easier to speak/write foreign languages when you're drunk...

yeah but by the hangover im amased that i even found this board

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[TomAiello 25]

Quote

It's usually easier to speak/write foreign languages when you're drunk...

I think it depends on the drink. I've noticed that my french gets significantly better with the addition of some red wine.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[JFK 0]

Quote

Quote

It's usually easier to speak/write foreign languages when you're drunk...

I think it depends on the drink. I've noticed that my french gets significantly better with the addition of some red wine.

I'd like to hear that Tom
I could probably drop by your place in April/May with a nice bottle of French red wine

JFK #1013
PM Me
No Adrenalin.... No Fun!
"Minds are like parachutes the

[DexterBase 0]

There may be some red wine showing up this weekend with a couple jumpers I know.

Hope you can play with us.

[Faber 0]

Quote

In Reply To
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


It's usually easier to speak/write foreign languages when you're drunk...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I think it depends on the drink. I've noticed that my french gets significantly better with the addition of some red wine.

hmm need to test what Tom drinks to improve his danish

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[Niklasp 0]

try "Gammel Dansk" :)

[Faber 0]

as long it aint whith Citrus

yeah perhaps i should bring some Gammel dansk to US as i visit

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[DexterBase 0]

Quote

Other Characteristics Noted (both slider up and slider down)

Turn rate while using toggles is slightly tamed.

Flare power is reduced by 5%.

Since a great majority of my BASE jumping is done slider down and below 500 feet, these are two qualities I don't want to see in my BASE canopies.

I like the turn rate and responsiveness of my BlackJack and sometimes I need every ounce of flare that thing has.

In what delay range (slider up) were off heading problems being seen? Were the off heading openings more frequent than other BASE canopies?

Before I do the mod on my BlackJack canopies, I'd like to know exactly what I'm gaining by giving up that 5% of my bottom end. I've never had a problem with headings on slider up jumps, even on short delays.

I will probably end up doing the mod since that's what CR and Asylum are recommending, but I'd like to know more about the trade-offs.

Also, the mod is only to the upper control lines correct? I heard talk of a new lineset but I was under the impression that everything else about the trim of the canopy was good to go.

I know CR is now building the sliders wider than the original generation of BlackJacks (Ace too I suppose).

[Faber 0]

Quote

Other Characteristics Noted (both slider up and slider down)

Turn rate while using toggles is slightly tamed.

Flare power is reduced by 5%.

getting a extra line on should pull down more og the tail,i cant see why you would get slow turns?(or you mean not so sharp?then i agree)

whith a 5th line you pull more tail down which makes a more powerfull flare=more easy to stall the canopy,i cant see why it would reduce your flare?

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[nicknitro71 0]

To make things more clear:

The older configuration of Ace and BJ still had FIVE break lines. The difference was in the position:1,2,3,4,6 and lenght of 1 and 6 (longer).

The new config position is 1,2,3,4,5 all the same lenghts.

By the way if you don't like it you can go back to the original one; It's nothing permanent.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[AreUcrazy 0]

I wish I had read this post before I had the mod done. I have to echo what BPS said about observations. I'm using a BJ310 with the ZP foreskin and weight 173-183lbs.

Before the mod it was very easy to flair and snatch a landing. The turn performance was also better.

After talking with Marty I'll start a little higher in the flair and anticipate the landing a little better.

I can't say I was pleased with a slider up jump I did a few weeks ago off the Green Monster(730') ... 130 degree left. Of course not being that experienced it was probably me and not the rig.

I'll give it a few more jumps(10+) and if it keeps giving me fits maybe I'll have it changed back to the orginal setup.

[DexterBase 0]

I was one of those hesitant to have the mod done since I was totally pleased with my canopy and wasn't having any heading issues before the modification.

Since having the mod done, I've put about 45 jumps on my canopy. Those were mixed slider up and down, and almost all of the slider up jumps were in a range where you'd expect to have questionable heading performance.

I haven't noticed any negative heading performance since having the mod done. Like I already said, I wasn't having issues before either.

The canopy still flares like a badass and I stand up landings that I would normally expect to PLF. There may be a very slight loss in flare power, but it's small enough that I can't say it matters. With the mod done, the BJ still has an incredible flare.

The turn rate is still fast enough that I can rip the canopy around in a flat turn very quickly if I need to.

I was a little reluctant to have the mod done since I thought my canopy was fine, but I'm just as happy with the canopy now.

If you've ordered a newer ACE or BlackJack, the canopy is already configured this way, but on the older line configuration, having the mod done will not hurt your performance.

My other BlackJack, KMonster's canopy (an identical BJ 240), is set up with the old line configuration. I'll try to do some back to back jumps and compare the two canopies. That will give me a better idea. Funny I hadn't thought of that until now.