I want your opinion on the NPS & BASE

[blitzkrieg 0]

i say that all us BASE jumpers unite... build a big boat and sail off to unchartered territories, inhabit a new continent and start new lives in what would become a FREE country...

ok well, i'll shut up now.

[TomAiello 25]

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To help me better understand (and fight) the issue, what are the reasons why the NPS doesn't want BASE jumping in their parks, when they don't seem to mind climbers or hikers. Only reasons I can come up with are:

1) Ignorance of what the sport is and the dangers involved
2) Fear of bad publicity from injuries/deaths
3) Fear of damage to the park (trailblazing, etc)

Add to each of those "historical record of same", and I think that about sums it up.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 25]

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One of the closest jumpers to the famous valley in California regularly brings untrained (i.e. zero skydives) people up to Twin for "Death Camp," and puts them off the bridge. Do you really believe we wouldn't see "Death Camp in Yosemite"?

I'd just like to add that I've now received an abusive, and anonymous PM, essentially telling me that the sender will deathcamp whenever and whoever they want.

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For a hundred bucks a pop, you'd see plenty of Norcal jumpers willing to death camp your daughter off the Big Stone.

I rest my case.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[ZegeunerLeben 0]

>>What did you expect? You pretty much just slammed every jumper in Northern California.

[TomAiello 25]

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>>What did you expect? You pretty much just slammed every jumper in Northern California.

Not true. I slammed every person who thinks it's ok to take a hundred bucks and put someone with no experience (of any kind) off for a BASE jump.

I'll stand by that.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[peterk 0]

I agree that this is all BS. However, with all the time spent on whining and complaining on dz.com about the NPS, how many others took 20-30 minutes out of your day to write a polite, well-worded letter to the NPS to request a permit to jump at your favorite National Park?

---------------
Peter
BASE - The Ultimate Victimless Crime

[ZegeunerLeben 0]

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Not true. I slammed every person who thinks it's ok to take a hundred bucks and put someone with no experience (of any kind) off for a BASE jump.

I'll stand by that.

>>Fair enough.

[TomAiello 25]

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I agree that this is all BS. However, with all the time spent on whining and complaining on dz.com about the NPS, how many others took 20-30 minutes out of your day to write a polite, well-worded letter to the NPS to request a permit to jump at your favorite National Park?

I've actually written more than one. I think I'm approaching 50 (but I tend to send them in batches, one to each park that has a jumpable exit I know about). I'd say I get up the motivation to send off my letter about once or twice a year.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[leroydb 0]

do you have any prewritten modifiable ones?

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[TomAiello 25]

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do you have any prewritten modifiable ones?

Hmmm. Let me dig them out. Most of mine are of the "Dear NPS, I'd like to apply for a permit" rather than the "Dear Congressman, I want the rules changed," variety.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[leroydb 0]

Would it be a good idea to start a grassroots effort and get all(a lot) of base jumpers to send in letters all at the same time?

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[TomAiello 25]

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Would it be a good idea to start a grassroots effort and get all(a lot) of base jumpers to send in letters all at the same time?

Probably.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[leroydb 0]

a. We'd need to get the word out.

b. Tom Has some examples that are modifiable.

c. Lets all agree on a date that letters would need to arrive. (ie: estimate arrival date based on your location vs where it is being sent.

D. addresses?

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[MWGemini 0]

Are there any other places/events where the NPS HAS issued permits (other than Bridge Day)? Maybe one tactic for getting better access is finding precedents that we want to see become policy.

Mike

[nicrussell 0]

Another argument that the NPS has is that bright parachutes opening in the valley may ruin the serenity of the valley.

--People driving in the valley look up see parachutes, get distracted and wrap them selves around a sequoia.

--Plus canopies opening can be loud and precieved as gunfire.

Maybe a complete ban on NPS property is unrealistic for the time being. However maybe a few times a year during tourism lulls, (early spring, late fall) during the week, a probationary permitted jumping day(s) could be well regulated by NPS and backed financially, in part by jumpers in attendance and NPS.

Just a thought.

nic

[TomAiello 25]

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However maybe a few times a year during tourism lulls...

The NPS has already established a precedent of allowing some activities at "low season" times that they don't allow during peak season. The primary activity regulated seasonally like this is the driving of private automobiles in some National Parks.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[nicrussell 0]

privste automobilies, i.e... snowmobiles/ATV's. if this is what the NPS approves then noise (decibles) wouldn't (shouldn't) be considered in declining a permit. These vehicles are far more annoying and enviromently destuctive than parachutes.

Honestly we need a HUGE name activist to help the movement. The congressman from Colorado is a benifit from within, but we need more. A spokesperson from the media that can convey the desire of jumpers, and the legality of which we are speaking. What if we (BASE jumpers) could get on a positive source of information on a prime time cable TV. What if one of us (i.e. J. Bell, T. Aiello, A. Badenhop, Hookit, or another articulate point of view could get on a show like Larry King, The O'Reiley (sic) Factor, Hardball with Chris Matthews, or whatever. some primetime perspective (with the honorable congressman from Colorado), showing the true desires of us, tax payers, desiring to do what we want...

I dont want to step out of BASE ethics, unless I can stretch what is reasonable. I pay my taxes, I love this counrty, and I love freefall. I think none of these is a crime. my .02

nic

[mr2mk1g 10]

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Would it be a good idea to start a grassroots effort and get all(a lot) of base jumpers to send in letters all at the same time?

You don't have to be a BASE jumper to apply for a permit. There's a lot of people outside of BASE who would support you it was easy enough... even people overseas too.

Expand your catchement and there's the potential to change the few dozen applicants into a couple of thousand.

[base428 1]

A production company we're working with is currently attempting to sell a one hour documentary that will definately allow us to tell our side of the jumper vs. NPS issue. They're negotiating with National Geographic and others.

But you are correct - it would be nice to have another Donahue type program about BASE. For those who weren't around then, a bunch of experienced jumpers were on the talk show Donahue in the early/mid 1990's. I think it was a small step forward for BASE at that time....

I'm going to develop a webpage that contains form letters to mail to various National Parks and Congressman. If other people can email me THEIR form letters, I'll add them to the choices. I'll post the info soon.

PS. Yes, I took 30 minutes and wrote my Congressman yesterday!!!!

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Honestly we need a HUGE name activist to help the movement.

(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only

[jalisco 0]

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Would it be a good idea to start a grassroots effort and get all(a lot) of base jumpers to send in letters all at the same time?

Burying them in permit requests all at once might be irritating, and, if you happen to think that some of their concerns might be allayed by instituting an "expert review" permitting process, might just highlight how much of a hassle such a permiting process could be if a whole bunch of BASE jumpers started doing that on a regular basis.

If you think lots of us requesting permits might gain us something, maybe a steady stream would be better. But I'm wondering whether those inside the NPS who already think we're a pain in the ass wouldn't just dig in their heels even more.

I'm thinking that a steady stream of polite, informative letters to decision makers might be preferable.

[mr2mk1g 10]

I talked about this the other day in a thread about the Australian NPS... under UK and most likely OZ legal systems, a public body given a discretionary power to grant a license can get itself into one hell of a lot of hot water if they adopt a blanket policy, (depending on the exact wording of the discretionary power of course).

Basically the govt. gave them a discretionary power for a reason... if they'd have wanted a blanket policy the govt. would have simply made one. Thus the public body is essentially breaking the rules the govt. has made for them.

Can anyone confirm if such a concept exists in the States? Can anyone confirm if the wording of the BASE legislation places the NPS in such a position?

If it does, a steady stream of permit applications may well be a very good thing indeed. If the NPS has any idea what it's doing they will start to get quite edgy about continually applying a blanket policy in violation of the legislation.

Perhaps such a blanket ban only exists at moment because they feel comfortable in the fact that hardly anyone's forcing them to use it… thus there’s no chance they’ll get caught doing it.

A constant stream of applications would therefore force the NPS to repeatedly apply the blanket policy and have them build up a history of essentially breaking the legislation under which they're operating. That could either draw their own attention to the risks they're running or, if the worst comes to worst, be used to twist their arm into acting in line with the legislation.

That’s if this all works in the States and actually applies in this situation. Anyone?

[base428 1]

You hit the nail on the head with the idea of a steady stream of letters to the decision makers. Here are some places you can start:

(1) Write Your Congressman

(2) If you feel like requesting a permit to jump in Yosemite:

Wilderness Permits
P.O. Box 545
Yosemite, CA 95389
(209) 372-0740

(3) Use the following form letter to write to the appropriate National Park of your choice. I'll try to get more NP addresses and other information soon. The following form letter is tailored for Yosemite, so please change any applicable information...

Today's Date

Your Name
Your Address
Your City, State, Zipcode, Country
Your Phone Number(s)

National Park Service
Wilderness Permits
P.O. Box 545
Yosemite, CA 95389


Dear Sir or Madam:

I am writing you in an effort to obtain a permit to make a legal parachute jump (BASE jump) from either of your magnificent granite cliffs, El Capitan or Half Dome, in Yosemite National Park. As it is well known in our sport that jumps made from either of these cliffs are unfortunately against park rules, I can only hope that my request be carefully analyzed and accepted by the proper governing authority. With all the hang gliding and rock climbing that is permitted in the Park, hopefully someday BASE jumpers will also be afforded the opportunity to equally enjoy what Yosemite has to offer and be able to make safe, organized, legal jumps at these locations.

As with all my BASE jumps, safety for myself and any observers is of the utmost importance. If provided with a permit, I can assure you that all proper safety measures will be followed in conjunction with the usage of new, BASE jumping specific gear. Helmets, knee pads, and elbow pads will be utilized. All Park and permit rules and regulations will be followed as prescribed.

I would like the opportunity to prove that safe, legal BASE jumps can be made from your wonderful cliffs. Together, we can work out a process to make everyone happy. Please allow me the opportunity to prove it to the National Park Service and perhaps even assist you in our efforts to create a structured system where we can safely make jumps in Yosemite.

Thank you for your consideration. If you have any questions, feel free to call me at XXX-XXX-XXXX.




Sincerely,



Your Name

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I'm thinking that a steady stream of polite, informative letters to decision makers might be preferable.

.

(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only

[TomAiello 25]

So, assuming the law is the same, we ought to attach all of our denied applications to the letters to Congressmen?

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[mr2mk1g 10]

If such a principal exists over there it probably couldn’t hurt to point out to your Congressman that they’ve adopted a blanket policy, together with a little paragraph noting why such a decision is unlawful. As for the content of that paragraph though I’m afraid I can’t help you. I wouldn’t even know where to start looking for such a principal in the US jurisdiction – as I said I don’t even know if the concept exists over there.

Putting it in a letter to your Congressman probably isn’t the “correct” manner in which you’re supposed to challenge such action… but the NPS might just get a little concerned if they started getting phone calls from disgruntled Congressmen.

Just note that one rejection letter doesn’t show a blanket policy – just that they’ve rejected yours. Many or dozens of rejections could though… especially if no one ever gets a permit except for bridge day. Do I remember hearing about someone having an internal policy statement about not granting permits?

[TomAiello 25]

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Just note that one rejection letter doesn’t show a blanket policy – just that they’ve rejected yours. Many or dozens of rejections could though...

I wonder how many issued permits they would have to show to successfully argue that it wasn't a blanket policy? Is the one for Bridge Day (yearly) enough? I recently heard about some demo jumps (from aircraft) that landed on NPS property (with permission). That particular demo team gets to do all kinds of things that aren't normally allowed, though (they're military), so I wonder if allowing them to land could still be in keeping with a "blanket" rejection.

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Do I remember hearing about someone having an internal policy statement about not granting permits?

Yes.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com