BASE813 0 #1 August 9, 2004 after a post by a UK friend in response to someone saying they cant freefall they aint interested and this apparently is "purist"...... I am curious. I myself have never SL'd a jump, as I am with the thought that I would prefer to freefall and not interested in SL. BUT I know people and seen the vids of some very cool SL jumps..... I am just not into SL jumping....... Purist? why is SL not pure? to me a BASE jump is jumping from a fixed object with a parachute, "FIXED OBJECT JUMPING" - mcconkeys, tards etc are still BASE jumps... you must still know about winds, and the technical aspect of the canopy in the effects of winds around your environment, you must still evaluate the evnironment you and your parachute are in to make a sucessful jump......... I beleive I am a purist, in that I would argue whether a tethered ballon is a BASE jump, or a cutaway from a paraglider is a BASE jump..... to some a low altitude parachute deployment is a BASE jump....... to some it aint...... in the end, BASE is about not having rules or restrictions........ and to say its not a "pure" BASE jump if you SL is slightly narrow minded........ In the end we are all "low altitude parachute deployment scientists" - BASE is just something to give us a name to the fun we have! would be interested in others thoughts about a bulshit subject.......... just go out have fun and who gives a shit! LOW ALTITUDE PARACHUTE DEPLOYMENT SCIENTISTS UNITE!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eb66to77 0 #2 August 9, 2004 L.A.P.D.S.! Sounds like a law enforcement agency, I am staying away. It doesn't matter to me if the object is freefallable or not. The only thing that matters to me is how long the drive home is and who will drive since everyone else will be drinking! 1,2,3, NOT IT!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sabre210 0 #3 August 9, 2004 Quoteafter a post by a UK friend in response to someone saying -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That might make a nice SL... but I'm a bit of a purist... if it ain't freefallable I won't jump it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hiya Zennie Now BASE is of course an incredibly personal thing and generally speaking there are no rights and wrongs. One person's dream jump is another person's nightmare, so please don' t think I'm trying to convert you (so to speak), it's just your comment and your use of the word 'purist' gets me thinking. Why do you consider static line to be less of a BASE jump than say a freefall. And would that also apply to a DB and PCA. This 'purist' approach has, i know, nothing to do with safety margins, as a 190ft sl will give you more canopy time than a 230ft freefall. Don't get me wrong, i'm really not having a go, i just would be keen to know why you turn your back on thousands, no tens of thousands of jumpable exhilarating, balls to the wall objects just because they might fall 10feet below your FF harddeck. Similarly, there are thousands of objects which ARE freefallable but have nasty fences or small tricky landings which are waiting to screw you up if you have anything less than a perfect on-heading opening. In these instances, isn't it preferable to SL it to get an idea first of the lay of the land. The whole world is jumpable. It just happens to be more jumpable to people willing to static line every now and then. A static line is no less of jump believe me. Ask Spence or Slim or Jean B. I believe this might make an interesting seperate thread Tom. With the greatest respect. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites gus 1 #4 August 9, 2004 QuoteThe whole world is jumpable. It just happens to be more jumpable to people willing to static line every now and then. Hey big fella, I thought the same thing when I read Zennie's post, what does being a 'purist' have to do with not doing static lines? Perhaps someone can chime in and comment on whether or not the BASE pioneers static lined stuff but I always assumed they did..... Zennie, didn't everyone's favourite World's Best BASE Jumper (TM) once say something similar? GusOutpatientsOnline.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sabre210 0 #5 August 9, 2004 I would like to reiterate my initial point that of course BASE is a personal thing and no one has to justify the jumps they make. What interests me though is why some people steer clear of static line jumps. We do (i hope) approach BASE with a logical scientific mind, assessing the options available to us on every jump so i assume there must be a good reason for not wanting to static line an object. IS it the perception that it must be a low jump therefore more risky, is it the added complexities in rigging the jump, is it just a gut feeling that SL isn't a real BASE jump??? Genuinely curious. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sabre210 0 #6 August 9, 2004 Perhaps someone can chime in and comment on whether or not the BASE pioneers static lined stuff but I always assumed they did..... Gus......yes they did static line . I have some amazing footage of early static line jumps done by Carl and Jean(at the canyon ). Jean was awesome, stepping up to be the first to jump whilst others waited to see the outcome. Carl stood by watching this amazing woman leap into the unknown. His comments to her over the radio after she lands just show how utterly proud he was of her "you had amazing form" i believe were his words. great stuff Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BASE813 0 #7 August 9, 2004 QuoteI would like to reiterate my initial point that of course BASE is a personal thing and no one has to justify the jumps they make. What interests me though is why some people steer clear of static line jumps. We do (i hope) approach BASE with a logical scientific mind, assessing the options available to us on every jump so i assume there must be a good reason for not wanting to static line an object. IS it the perception that it must be a low jump therefore more risky, is it the added complexities in rigging the jump, is it just a gut feeling that SL isn't a real BASE jump??? Genuinely curious. my reasons for it, if anyone cares, is that although i know the technical side of it, and accept people that do, when I BASE I like the feeling and thoughts about leaving an object without any connection to anything..... In my world I am floating at that point, and SL / PCA goes against what I want......... I would never say SL / PCA is not a BASE jump, but its just not my bag, I like to "perceive" the feeling of freedom when i step off without anything but me in the air, its then all about what I do and not what is behind me..................... I want to SL and do more PCA to gain more experience in other aspects of the sport which I feel I need to round my skills and enjoy other aspects of the sport........ but at a personal level of reason it does not fit me.............. in the end I want to try SL, mcconkey, tards, blah blah blah - as technically I know they will make me a better jumper.............. People who are going out mentoring new jumpers should know all aspects of all jumps as who knows what your student will get into....... some like the low shit, some may like the high shit, - but if your teaching someone and being a mentor then you should know all of it!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BASE813 0 #8 August 9, 2004 http://www.blincmagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17223&highlight=teachers+BASE interesting discussion on Mentors...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rfarris 1 #9 August 9, 2004 QuoteI thought the same thing when I read Zennie's post, what does being a 'purist' have to do with not doing static lines? After having started the thread about S/L'n the low water tower, it seemed to have branched off into a different topic, which is cool also. In defense of Zennie, having met and jumped with him, I didn't take his "purist" comment anymore than he prefers not to static line. I will agree, and I just recently learned how static line jumps are very much part of the sport. But then again as one said earlier, "BASE is personal". To me, here in my small corner of the earth, BASE jumping is about finding an object of interest, and researching it to find out the best way to get off it. I recently took that approach on a short freestander, which I first was going to freefall, but with the help of a more experienced jumper, learned the fine art of the S/L. Long story short, after I was under canopy I had the same, if not more of a statisfied feeling of just jumping off the object I've been looking at for 2 yrs. The fact that I did a static line instead of a freefall didn't matter one bit. Rod Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sabre210 0 #10 August 9, 2004 Hi Rod Can't stress enough that this isn't a dig at zennie no more than it is a dig at Mac, who i know, respect and have shared an exit point with on more than one occasion. I just am keen to know why static line seems to be perceived as the poor man's BASE jump. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Faber 0 #11 August 9, 2004 QuoteI just am keen to know why static line seems to be perceived as the poor man's BASE jump. its not.. i use 2-3 peices of breackcord and 2 rubberbands on each SL Jump,that makes the jump more expencive I think Zennie wanted to tell us that we are twads that we dont freefall it allBut then again i only defend him becours his my BASE# bro Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rfarris 1 #12 August 9, 2004 QuoteCan't stress enough that this isn't a dig at zennie no more than it is a dig at Mac, who i know, respect and have shared an exit point with on more than one occasion. I just am keen to know why static line seems to be perceived as the poor man's BASE jump. I guess I haven't been around long enough to have heard past debates on S/L vs. Freefall, as far as it being a "real" BASE jump or not. But I definately concur, a S/L jump is a "real" BASE jump. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rfarris 1 #13 August 9, 2004 Quote....twads Faber, does twad mean twat? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 25 #14 August 9, 2004 QuotePerhaps someone can chime in and comment on whether or not the BASE pioneers static lined stuff Several years ago the big topic of debate was whether static lines counted as BASE jumps or not.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 25 #15 August 9, 2004 Quotehttp://www.blincmagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17223&highlight=teachers+BASE interesting discussion on Mentors...... Um, did you mean to put that in a different thread?-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Faber 0 #16 August 9, 2004 yes you TWADSpeak danish it would be more simple Interesting Point you have Tom about the pioneers and SL,are we doing the same by TARD,Mcconkeys etc etc? Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sabre210 0 #17 August 9, 2004 Several years ago the big topic of debate was whether static lines counted as BASE jumps or not. What was the general consensus? And was PCA bundled in there for good measure as it is effectively the same? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gus 1 #4 August 9, 2004 QuoteThe whole world is jumpable. It just happens to be more jumpable to people willing to static line every now and then. Hey big fella, I thought the same thing when I read Zennie's post, what does being a 'purist' have to do with not doing static lines? Perhaps someone can chime in and comment on whether or not the BASE pioneers static lined stuff but I always assumed they did..... Zennie, didn't everyone's favourite World's Best BASE Jumper (TM) once say something similar? GusOutpatientsOnline.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sabre210 0 #5 August 9, 2004 I would like to reiterate my initial point that of course BASE is a personal thing and no one has to justify the jumps they make. What interests me though is why some people steer clear of static line jumps. We do (i hope) approach BASE with a logical scientific mind, assessing the options available to us on every jump so i assume there must be a good reason for not wanting to static line an object. IS it the perception that it must be a low jump therefore more risky, is it the added complexities in rigging the jump, is it just a gut feeling that SL isn't a real BASE jump??? Genuinely curious. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sabre210 0 #6 August 9, 2004 Perhaps someone can chime in and comment on whether or not the BASE pioneers static lined stuff but I always assumed they did..... Gus......yes they did static line . I have some amazing footage of early static line jumps done by Carl and Jean(at the canyon ). Jean was awesome, stepping up to be the first to jump whilst others waited to see the outcome. Carl stood by watching this amazing woman leap into the unknown. His comments to her over the radio after she lands just show how utterly proud he was of her "you had amazing form" i believe were his words. great stuff Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BASE813 0 #7 August 9, 2004 QuoteI would like to reiterate my initial point that of course BASE is a personal thing and no one has to justify the jumps they make. What interests me though is why some people steer clear of static line jumps. We do (i hope) approach BASE with a logical scientific mind, assessing the options available to us on every jump so i assume there must be a good reason for not wanting to static line an object. IS it the perception that it must be a low jump therefore more risky, is it the added complexities in rigging the jump, is it just a gut feeling that SL isn't a real BASE jump??? Genuinely curious. my reasons for it, if anyone cares, is that although i know the technical side of it, and accept people that do, when I BASE I like the feeling and thoughts about leaving an object without any connection to anything..... In my world I am floating at that point, and SL / PCA goes against what I want......... I would never say SL / PCA is not a BASE jump, but its just not my bag, I like to "perceive" the feeling of freedom when i step off without anything but me in the air, its then all about what I do and not what is behind me..................... I want to SL and do more PCA to gain more experience in other aspects of the sport which I feel I need to round my skills and enjoy other aspects of the sport........ but at a personal level of reason it does not fit me.............. in the end I want to try SL, mcconkey, tards, blah blah blah - as technically I know they will make me a better jumper.............. People who are going out mentoring new jumpers should know all aspects of all jumps as who knows what your student will get into....... some like the low shit, some may like the high shit, - but if your teaching someone and being a mentor then you should know all of it!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BASE813 0 #8 August 9, 2004 http://www.blincmagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17223&highlight=teachers+BASE interesting discussion on Mentors...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rfarris 1 #9 August 9, 2004 QuoteI thought the same thing when I read Zennie's post, what does being a 'purist' have to do with not doing static lines? After having started the thread about S/L'n the low water tower, it seemed to have branched off into a different topic, which is cool also. In defense of Zennie, having met and jumped with him, I didn't take his "purist" comment anymore than he prefers not to static line. I will agree, and I just recently learned how static line jumps are very much part of the sport. But then again as one said earlier, "BASE is personal". To me, here in my small corner of the earth, BASE jumping is about finding an object of interest, and researching it to find out the best way to get off it. I recently took that approach on a short freestander, which I first was going to freefall, but with the help of a more experienced jumper, learned the fine art of the S/L. Long story short, after I was under canopy I had the same, if not more of a statisfied feeling of just jumping off the object I've been looking at for 2 yrs. The fact that I did a static line instead of a freefall didn't matter one bit. Rod Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sabre210 0 #10 August 9, 2004 Hi Rod Can't stress enough that this isn't a dig at zennie no more than it is a dig at Mac, who i know, respect and have shared an exit point with on more than one occasion. I just am keen to know why static line seems to be perceived as the poor man's BASE jump. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #11 August 9, 2004 QuoteI just am keen to know why static line seems to be perceived as the poor man's BASE jump. its not.. i use 2-3 peices of breackcord and 2 rubberbands on each SL Jump,that makes the jump more expencive I think Zennie wanted to tell us that we are twads that we dont freefall it allBut then again i only defend him becours his my BASE# bro Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rfarris 1 #12 August 9, 2004 QuoteCan't stress enough that this isn't a dig at zennie no more than it is a dig at Mac, who i know, respect and have shared an exit point with on more than one occasion. I just am keen to know why static line seems to be perceived as the poor man's BASE jump. I guess I haven't been around long enough to have heard past debates on S/L vs. Freefall, as far as it being a "real" BASE jump or not. But I definately concur, a S/L jump is a "real" BASE jump. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rfarris 1 #13 August 9, 2004 Quote....twads Faber, does twad mean twat? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #14 August 9, 2004 QuotePerhaps someone can chime in and comment on whether or not the BASE pioneers static lined stuff Several years ago the big topic of debate was whether static lines counted as BASE jumps or not.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #15 August 9, 2004 Quotehttp://www.blincmagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17223&highlight=teachers+BASE interesting discussion on Mentors...... Um, did you mean to put that in a different thread?-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #16 August 9, 2004 yes you TWADSpeak danish it would be more simple Interesting Point you have Tom about the pioneers and SL,are we doing the same by TARD,Mcconkeys etc etc? Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sabre210 0 #17 August 9, 2004 Several years ago the big topic of debate was whether static lines counted as BASE jumps or not. What was the general consensus? And was PCA bundled in there for good measure as it is effectively the same? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BASE813 0 #18 August 9, 2004 QuoteQuotehttp://www.blincmagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17223&highlight=teachers+BASE interesting discussion on Mentors...... Um, did you mean to put that in a different thread? oops! but its not bad that thoughts about mentors get a look! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #19 August 9, 2004 Gang, gang. I wasn't trying to disparage those who SL extremely low stuff. Like I said in the other thread, "purist" was a very poor choice of words on my part. Here in my neck of the woods I have more freefallable objects than I can count, so my thinking is probably skewed in that direction. The only thing I've done like that was a PCA from 210, and I was under canopy before I knew what happened... I missed the ground rush. Now my buddy riggersam pointed out that I'd probably be climbing up my risers if I SL'd from 150. And I'm sure he's right. Maybe I need to hunt down some sick low stuff to gain a finer appreciation of SL jumping. Speaking if which... what's y'all's hard deck for SLs? - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #20 August 9, 2004 In general (very general) early BASE static line jumps are more popular in Great Britain then here. In the U.S. direct bag is the way most new BASE jumpers entered the sport in the early 1980s. This followed the skydiving model where you crawled before walking. (Unlike today in skydiving, where you walk first, and then lot's of times wind up crawling later One Brit, BASE 60, remarkably made his very first BASE freefall on his 60th BASE jump. (On a building jump we did together.) But, this is probably due to the lowness of available sites in Britain at the time. Since then the use of direct bag in the U.S. began to fade, with the sentiment of the time expressed by Rick P. who always said, “I’d rather watch TV, than DB.” With the types of BASE canopies and containers available today, together with legal sites and BASE FJCs, it makes sense both DB and S/L, for general use, or as teaching aids, is going by the wayside. Both of these methods demand a rigging knowledge not necessarily possessed by today’s new BASE jumper. (Remember, early BASE jumpers came from the DZ, at a time, when if you didn’t totally understand the overly complicated state of skydiving gear, you died.) S/L, or even DB, will always have a place (BR’s Super Bowl jumps) in the sport, and will always be a tool in the arsenal of the most serious BASE jumpers. However, a scan of the BASE fatality list will show this is nothing to fool around with, unless you know what you are doing. Nick BASE 194 http://www.basefatalities.info/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sabre210 0 #21 August 9, 2004 Quote Gang, gang. I wasn't trying to disparage those who SL extremely low stuff. (beckons to the mob) HE WAS, HE WAS.... and he called all your mothers whores. Burn, burn ...... Hard deck?....As i mentioned, my lowest jump to date was a 160ft B which although low (to me) wasn't as bad as i was expecting. Easily had time to get the toggles off and a nice flare, so I will definitely go lower, especially after observing the 130ft B the other night, again toggles off and nice flare for both jumpers involved. I currently jump an ACE (no vents or valves) so my hard deck is a bit higher to allow for pressurisation. Nick DG. Thanks for the info. Would be keen to hear more. ian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 25 #22 August 9, 2004 QuoteI currently jump an ACE (no vents or valves) so my hard deck is a bit higher to allow for pressurisation. You may be surprised at how low you can static line an unvented canopy. In my experience the vents make a much bigger difference on freefalls than static lines, for no reason I can explain.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Faber 0 #23 August 9, 2004 lowest ive done were 143ft and im sure ill go lower(how low i dont know for sure),but guess the deck for me will be arround 120ft or so.. Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites base698 1 #24 August 9, 2004 Personally I think you should have to freefall and SL every object to get your number. I had almost accomplished that when I got mine, but I hadn't freefell a B. I got to freefall that last object about 2 months after I applied for my number. SL's are often very fun jumps. I don't believe rollovers are real base jumps, although they can lead to very real object strikes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sabre210 0 #25 August 9, 2004 You may be surprised at how low you can static line an unvented canopy. In my experience the vents make a much bigger difference on freefalls than static lines, for no reason I can explain. This is something i have wondered about. How low are we talking about???(and no i won't take this as gospel and go out and do it) Would you, given the choice, opt for a vented canopy for a low SL or would it not be a factor you would consider relevant AT ALL. Maybe it doen't make that much difference purely because of the very low airspeed a jumper has achieved before deployment on a static line jump. It's got to be more than Ju Ju. Discounting beach/very soft mud landings, what is your hard deck for repeatable SL jumps over hard ground??? I stress repeatable cos any fool could SL low and break both their legs. Is this a discussion you'd prefer to have over at Blinc???? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #22 August 9, 2004 QuoteI currently jump an ACE (no vents or valves) so my hard deck is a bit higher to allow for pressurisation. You may be surprised at how low you can static line an unvented canopy. In my experience the vents make a much bigger difference on freefalls than static lines, for no reason I can explain.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #23 August 9, 2004 lowest ive done were 143ft and im sure ill go lower(how low i dont know for sure),but guess the deck for me will be arround 120ft or so.. Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base698 1 #24 August 9, 2004 Personally I think you should have to freefall and SL every object to get your number. I had almost accomplished that when I got mine, but I hadn't freefell a B. I got to freefall that last object about 2 months after I applied for my number. SL's are often very fun jumps. I don't believe rollovers are real base jumps, although they can lead to very real object strikes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sabre210 0 #25 August 9, 2004 You may be surprised at how low you can static line an unvented canopy. In my experience the vents make a much bigger difference on freefalls than static lines, for no reason I can explain. This is something i have wondered about. How low are we talking about???(and no i won't take this as gospel and go out and do it) Would you, given the choice, opt for a vented canopy for a low SL or would it not be a factor you would consider relevant AT ALL. Maybe it doen't make that much difference purely because of the very low airspeed a jumper has achieved before deployment on a static line jump. It's got to be more than Ju Ju. Discounting beach/very soft mud landings, what is your hard deck for repeatable SL jumps over hard ground??? I stress repeatable cos any fool could SL low and break both their legs. Is this a discussion you'd prefer to have over at Blinc???? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
